[3.5] Savage Vampire

[Scipio]

The savage vampire template in Libris Mortis has a different set of ability adjustments that it says are applied to the base creature. By this I assume the ability adjustments replace the vampire abilities. Is that correct?

Standard Vampire
Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4

Savage Vampire
Str +10, Dex +4, Int -2, Wis +2

In addition the savage vampire loses the dominate ability and gains claw attacks. The claw attacks replace the slam, and each claw drains 1 level.

Doesn't this seem pretty weak compared to the standard vampire?

[The Glyphstone]

Not really. It turns the vampire from a manipulator/mastermind into a brawler. Losing Dominate is a hit, but now it can drain 2 levels/turn instead of 1, which makes it a lot more dangerous in melee to anyone who isn't Death Warded.

[Scipio]

Not really. It turns the vampire from a manipulator/mastermind into a brawler. Losing Dominate is a hit, but now it can drain 2 levels/turn instead of 1, which makes it a lot more dangerous in melee to anyone who isn't Death Warded.

A vampire can already drain 2 levels per turn with their slam attack. I love the flavor of the savage vampire, but it just seems a bit weaker.

[Flickerdart]

Thri-Kreen Savage Vampire with Shape Soulmeld (Girallon Arms) and Open Least Chakra. 2 levels drained per turn? How about six. CR3. Enjoy.

[The Glyphstone]

A vampire can already drain 2 levels per turn with their slam attack. I love the flavor of the savage vampire, but it just seems a bit weaker.

Ah, looks like you're right. Whoops.

[Starbuck_II]

The savage vampire template in Libris Mortis has a different set of ability adjustments that it says are applied to the base creature. By this I assume the ability adjustments replace the vampire abilities. Is that correct?

Standard Vampire
Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4

Savage Vampire
Str +10, Dex +4, Int -2, Wis +2

In addition the savage vampire loses the dominate ability and gains claw attacks. The claw attacks replace the slam, and each claw drains 1 level.

Doesn't this seem pretty weak compared to the standard vampire?

But a Standard Vamp can only use Energy drain ability 1/rd.

Does savage have any restriction? If no, then savage has more potential power. Just needs to increase attacks.

[Scipio]

But a Standard Vamp can only use Energy drain ability 1/rd.

Does savage have any restriction? If no, then savage has more potential power. Just needs to increase attacks.

That is a good idea. Maybe I should look at Rapidstrike, since Haste will not be an option for my particular savage vampire. Any other ways to increase natural attacks come to mind?

[Edwin]

Only way to get more natural attacks is by getting additional natural weapons, I think.

[Dusk Eclipse]

totemist hands down are the master of ridiculous number of nat attacks.

Girallon Arms+Landshark boots+ Thri-krin+rapidstrike= OUCH

[Edwin]

totemist hands down are the master of ridiculous number of nat attacks.

Girallon Arms+Landshark boots+ Thri-krin+rapidstrike= OUCH

Well, okay, beyond that.

[Starbuck_II]

Only way to get more natural attacks is by getting additional natural weapons, I think.

It has to be additional claw attacks since it says claws transfer energy drain in savage.

[Edwin]

It has to be additional claw attacks since it says claws transfer energy drain in savage.

Yeah, I know. Which, barring spouting extra arms, is difficult to achieve, or at least highly specifically limited.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Yeah, I know. Which, barring spouting extra arms, is difficult to achieve, or at least highly specifically limited.

girrallons blessing, polymorph/shapeshange into a marilith, grafts... I am sure there are more ways...

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Let's not go there.

I like savage vamp. In fact, I used it in my Ravenloft campaign for a Vampire Urban Ranger

[Flickerdart]

Vampires can't have Rapidstrike, so you're stuck with getting more Claws.

[Scipio]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I just looked up Rapid Strike in Draconomicon, and an undead cannot qualify.

This is actually for my Ravenloft campaign. Not Strahd of course.

[Sophismata]

I thought savage vampires also got Wildshape?

[Flickerdart]

They keep the standard vampire Alternate Form (Dire Wolf/Bat).

[KillianHawkeye]

Doesn't this seem pretty weak compared to the standard vampire?

Only if you consider the loss of dominate to be a big deal. Otherwise, it's about even with the standard vampire.

[Scipio]

Only if you consider the loss of dominate to be a big deal. Otherwise, it's about even with the standard vampire.

I tend to think a mass dominate type ability is pretty good, but not every vampire should have it. The persuasive vampire is great. A mass suggestion ability that can be used without penalty in combat.

[KillianHawkeye]

I tend to think a mass dominate type ability is pretty good, but not every vampire should have it. The persuasive vampire is great. A mass suggestion ability that can be used without penalty in combat.

Vampires don't get a mass-version of dominate. It's the standard one-at-a-time kind, although they can do it as much as they want.

[Set]

The game totally could use a lower LA template for Buffy / 30 Days of Night style vampires who have very limited supernatural powers (no mind control, no animal control, no gaseous form, no flight, no level drain), but decent Str, speed, senses and toughness. Both an undead version and a living 'infected vampire' version.

Throwing a vampire attack at a 1st level party should be totally do-able, just for the pants-wetting awesomeness of it.

Having a village attacked by a pack of a dozen of these lesser vampires could make for a fun 'Seven Samurai' sort of encounter for a lower level party, as long as it isn't obvious (skip the oil pipeline...).

[Scipio]

Vampires don't get a mass-version of dominate. It's the standard one-at-a-time kind, although they can do it as much as they want.

Yep, I was reading the entry wrong.

[Cogidubnus]

Don't forget that as you increase in HD/class levels you'll get more attacks. TWF with claws and 4 attacks at high levels. Even without optimising that's up to 8 negative levels A ROUND. Painful, especially if you can grab batman.

[Scipio]

Don't forget that as you increase in HD/class levels you'll get more attacks. TWF with claws and 4 attacks at high levels. Even without optimising that's up to 8 negative levels A ROUND. Painful, especially if you can grab batman.

Are you talking about 3.5? Natural attacks never get iterative attacks, and they cannot be combined with TWF.