DM Series pt 2: Keeping Players Engaged and Getting Them Hooked

[Human Paragon 3]

This is part 2 of a weekly series of DM theory threads.

Juris's DMing Series Master TOC Thread

This week's topic is the DM's role in player engagement. Obviously, no DM can force a player to be engaged, but even one checked-out player can be a drag on the game. It's tempting to shift blame to the player(s) (they can't keep up with my plot!) or outside forces (it's not my game that's the problem, it's that the World Series is this week), and there is some credence to this, but it is first and foremost the DM's responsibility to keep the game fun for everybody, and if everybody's having fun, they will be engaged.

There are a number of tactics a savvy DM can employ to hook the players. One way is to give the player characters a personal stake in the story. Good players can give themselves a reason to adventure, but a good DM makes that job easy on the players. Most good roleplayers get a funny twang when they do something out of character because the story requires it. How do you mitigate this? Make the game feed on in-character decisions. Design problems and encounters that not only the players, but the player characters, want or need to solve. And make it so interesting, so exciting, and so fun that the players can't help to be hooked.

This thread's purpose will be to discuss how to put this concept into action. Anecdotes, advice, theories and complaints welcome.

[BRC]

One of my rules for DMing is not to take things too seriously. You're players generally aren't as interested in the rules and minutia of the game as you are. Therefore, throw around refluffs and cool descriptions liberally.

For example, a recent adventure of mind had the PC's going up against a boss with rogue levels. One of the PC's, a rifle-wielding elf, gets sneak attacked by the boss and dropped down to 3 hit points.
Mechanically, he took a 5-foot step back, and used a ranged full attack, getting a crit and basically dropping the boss, but this particular player wasn't all that into the game, so I decided to mix things up.
Me: "Alright, that's a crit, hey Player, permission to make this awesome?"
Player: "Sure"
Me: "The boss stabs you with his cutlass. You grab his shoulders, lean back, and headbutt him."
Alright, so was turning "You shoot him with your rifle" into "You headbutt him" a mechanically sound refluff in any sense of the word? No, but it was awesome.


Another trick, let the PC's influence the campaign, not just in a "Do we save the duke or kill him so his brother can take the throne" way. Do it in a "The PC's like a random bit NPC, incorporate them more into the campaign".

Currently in this same campaign, a major character is a sailor on the PC's crew named Bill, he is an unbelievable bad-ass, and my players love him. He also started as a joke, the PC's ship was being attacked by a Zombie Pleasaur, I wasn't taking the fight seriously at all, it was just a couple rounds until another NPC showed up to blind the thing so the PC's could drive it off.

Anyway, the zombie rolled a critical failure on one of it's attacks, so I ruled that it tried to eat a sailor named Bill, who I ruled punched it in the face for 1d20 damage.


My final two tricks for keeping Players engaged. First, give them new toys to play with, secondly, keep them in the drivers seat.

Some of the most fun encounters I've run have been with the Players not controlling their own characters, but some pre-made NPC's for one adventure. Or I gave each 5th level character a 3rd level redshirt controlled by the same player. My players loved their mooks (simple fighter type characters) and got very attached to them. Yes there were now alot more characters involved in the fight, but my players were controlling plenty of them, and so had a great time. When my players went up against the boss who took down their mooks with a Fireball, they got really angry and worked hard to save them.

Now, had these NPC's stuck around, it probably wouldn't have been as fun, but when the players come to the table and, for one adventure, get some new toys to play with, it can be loads of fun.

[valadil]

The best player engagement advice I can offer is to request backstory from them. The more the better. Then use that backstory. When a player writes an NPC, they're giving you a free plot hook that they've already bitten into. Why write your own NPCs when you can instead fill the world with player created characters? Less work for you and more fun for players.

[Human Paragon 3]

I am also a huge proponent of having PCs supply their own backstories including NPCs.

I am lucky in that in my current campaign, all of my PCs have at least somebody in their backstories.

I have a dwarf fighter looking for his lost son, a half orc warblade who was taught the art of dueling by a drunken sword-for-hire, a monk who was sent away from the monestary by his wise master, a barbarian who was sold into slavery and forced by his cruel master to fight in arenas, and a wizard who is apprenticed to a great archmage.

All have NPCs in their backstories, all could supply great hooks. All generated by the players.

[gdiddy]

I am a writer first and a GM second, so I like to bring my craft to the table with me. My descriptions are short, but effective. This lets the players fill in blanks. Often, players will talk about aspects of a mansion or city that I had not described, but have come into being by group consensus and creativity.

I take these group-created spaces and fill them will detail. This is less like writing and more like shading a drawing. Once in the aftermath of a player-started riot, I had a little boy not able to find his parents. I made the little bastard adorable. It was me finger-waving at the players, reminding them that real people were hurt in their actions.

I participate in fencing and horseback riding, so I can detail fight scenes and the way horses behave better than most.

Most importantly, I know my audience: I play with usually more women than men. Mostly because I am not looking for the same game many male roleplayers are. My game is not wish fulfillment. It is not an optimization race or characters that can solve any problem. My game's purpose is telling a story about cool exceptional characters and their relationships with each other and the world around them. I always tell my players this. The point of the game is for everyone to enjoy themselves. Making sure you start with the right group of people is why I'm really carefully who I game with.

[Human Paragon 3]

Interesting side discussion:

How do you keep multiple players engaged when they each want something different?

[TheThan]

I am also a huge proponent of having PCs supply their own backstories including NPCs.

don't you know, all adventurers are orphans with mysterious backstories that they will never reveal in order to protect themselves from their enemies.

[valadil]

don't you know, all adventurers are orphans with mysterious backstories that they will never reveal in order to protect themselves from their enemies.

Mysterious backstories are fine. The backstory should still exist though, even if the character wants to keep it secret. And I'd expect them to supply some reason for being so paranoid.

[Human Paragon 3]

don't you know, all adventurers are orphans with mysterious backstories that they will never reveal in order to protect themselves from their enemies.

I had a player once whose character had so many aliases that nobody knew his real name. The character knew, but the player never even bothered to make a real name up, just a huge list of aliases. I didn't know the character's real name, but one day, an npc DID.

"He calls you by your name. The real one you were born with."

That got the player's attention.

[BRC]

don't you know, all adventurers are orphans with mysterious backstories that they will never reveal in order to protect themselves from their enemies.

I remember back when I frequented the WoW RP boards, there was one guy who posted the classic "Mysterious Past" backstory. When we responded that it needed more details, his response was along the lines of "How can I make a backstory for somebody nobody knows anything about?".

Which is a stupid response. It dosn't matter that your character dosn't tell his life story to everybody he meets, he still came from somewhere. He still had experiences before the game starts, and those still had some effect on him.

Of course, the other option is the Amnesia route, the ultimate choice for lazy players.

In my book, skipping out of a backstory by giving your character Amnesia is code for "The DM makes up a backstory for you and doesn't tell you", which leads to the DM saying things like "How do you know you never defiled the ancient tomb of the Mage-King Argus? You're character has amnesia remember."

[WarKitty]

Interesting side discussion:

How do you keep multiple players engaged when they each want something different?

Depends on what they want. Try to combine things.

As a related question: What do different people want out of the game or find that their players want out of the game?

I've found that starting them out in a situation tends to work well for the first session or two - at least in terms of providing character motivation. E.g. you have all been convicted of some sort of crime. The king has offered to pardon you in exchange for returning a powerful artifact to him. As a bonus you may keep any treasure you find on the way. (If they complain about not committing any crimes, just make it clear that the political structure is rather corrupt and willing to convict someone for political ends - such as retrieving powerful artifacts.)

[Kaun]

+1 to player writen back stories and NPC's.

I also find that a good BBEG is key to keeping players interested.

If you can get players to hate your BBEG they will go after any hook with even the smallest hint of them like blood hounds.

Good tricks for this is having the BBEG make his first apperance in the game when the players are still well too low powered to beat him/her/it.

Make your BBEG overly arrogant, cocky and self assured. Have (him) outsmart them once or twice in ways that arn't apparent right away, also having (him) defeat the pc's once or twice and rub it in their faces helps too. Once your PC's are frothing for (his) blood keeping them involved in the story is easy.

[Private-Prinny]

I also find that a good BBEG is key to keeping players interested.

If you can get players to hate your BBEG they will go after any hook with even the smallest hint of them like blood hounds.

Good tricks for this is having the BBEG make his first apperance in the game when the players are still well too low powered to beat him/her/it.

Make your BBEG overly arrogant, cocky and self assured. Have (him) outsmart them once or twice in ways that arn't apparent right away, also having (him) defeat the pc's once or twice and rub it in their faces helps too. Once your PC's are frothing for (his) blood keeping them involved in the story is easy.

+1 to this. I always start by statting out the BBEG.

[Magic Myrmidon]

Also, with the BBEG, maybe just start the campaign with some things unrelated to the main story. Make them get to know and love the city, or people in the city. Then, when they get to know them... the BBEG ruins it. Then they want revenge.

That can work sometimes.

[TheThan]

Think you guys need to check your sarcasm meters, they may need adjustments.

Seriously speaking though, I’ve come across the whole “mysterious” loner that’s an orphan and there is no one important in his life far too often for my taste.

I think this stems from players that focus too much on their character sheets. They start viewing their character as nothing more than stats and abilities and they forget their character is a living breathing person with a (potentially) rich history and background. So when asked to produce a background they take an easy copout and go “amnesia” or some such.

[gdiddy]

The mysterious orphan loner munchkin PC amnesiac.

And his arch nemesis, the boring NPC who will not shut up, because the DM constructed four generations of backstory.

When they mate, they make the DMPC, who is so awesome that the players will have be riveted.

[WarKitty]

Honestly, it sounds like you all are only planning for a single type of character. The key is to give the players what they want.

If the players want to kill things and gain power? Give them fights that challenge them and decent treasure drops, and don't worry too much about RP.

If they like to roleplay? Encourage them to write backstories and try to work them into the campaign, and go a bit easier on combat or make "trick" monsters that they have to figure out.

If you have both? This can be a challenge. Let the kill-things people play the silent orphan if they want but get them to write out a basic personality. Encourage the roleplayers to rp a character who's interested in optimizing him or her self. Try to keep a mix of combat and rp opportunities.

[Kaun]

The key is to give the players what they want.

Out of interest (Note Warkitty this isn't directed directly back at you, your post just made me think about it.)

Why is it so often the DM giving the players what they want rather then the players playing what the DM wants?

I mean at the end of the day the DM generaly speaking puts a lot more work into the game then the players combined ever will.

[gdiddy]

I'd rather just not DM for the silent orphan wish-fulfillment-vehicle. Especially if he won't appreciate anything I make any more than a good WoW boss fight. When my games is not combat, he'll have to roleplay like everyone else. I just won't cater to that kind of player.

Maybe I'm spoiled with a lot of good players, but yeah. If people aren't having fun together, they shouldn't play. Doesn't mean make drama or that anyone is failing, not everyone belongs in every game. I would be bored to tears in a dungeon crawl, so I won't play.

Now, if a player engages in roleplay and is advancing their story and tell me OoC that they'd like more combat, they'll get it. But help me to help you. Be a mature player, tell me if you're not having fun. I am not your psychologist, we're adults playing pretend together. (We probably both need more therapy than easily affordable.)

[TheMadLinguist]

Think you guys need to check your sarcasm meters, they may need adjustments.

Seriously speaking though, I’ve come across the whole “mysterious” loner that’s an orphan and there is no one important in his life far too often for my taste.

I think this stems from players that focus too much on their character sheets. They start viewing their character as nothing more than stats and abilities and they forget their character is a living breathing person with a (potentially) rich history and background. So when asked to produce a background they take an easy copout and go “amnesia” or some such.

Or maybe they're tired of the DM killing off anyone they're attached to whenever they put any significant backstory in place, and decided that if all their friends are going to die off anyway, might as well have them dead to begin with.

[WarKitty]

Out of interest (Note Warkitty this isn't directed directly back at you, your post just made me think about it.)

Why is it so often the DM giving the players what they want rather then the players playing what the DM wants?

I mean at the end of the day the DM generaly speaking puts a lot more work into the game then the players combined ever will.

Good question. Honestly, if the DM and the players don't want roughly the same thing, you're probably better off having someone else DM/finding new players.

It just bugs me the way some people talk. I have one character that is pretty much about getting as much power as I can. And it's a lot of fun seeing what you can flambe. My fellow players like to rp more. I try to work with them, but I do have the somewhat typical taciturn character with few strong ties anywhere. It gives me something I can work with without being dragged into heavy rp where I really don't feel comfortable.

[Kaun]

Good question. Honestly, if the DM and the players don't want roughly the same thing, you're probably better off having someone else DM/finding new players.

It just bugs me the way some people talk. I have one character that is pretty much about getting as much power as I can. And it's a lot of fun seeing what you can flambe. My fellow players like to rp more. I try to work with them, but I do have the somewhat typical taciturn character with few strong ties anywhere. It gives me something I can work with without being dragged into heavy rp where I really don't feel comfortable.

I have a few players that sound similar to you and i am fine with them. They tend to keep their input into the RP lite but they dont stop the fanatic RPer from having their fun too. I Just make sure they get some combat every session to keep them happy.

But if i had my players say, "Screw this rp crap we just want to kill stuff and get the loot!" i would be quite happy to stand aside and let them find another DM. For no other reason as that sounds bloody borring to DM and much more like hard work.

[Knaight]

I don't know, even in games where they mostly stay alive, that still shows up. Of course, most of my players are refugees from a Kill Em' All style GM or 3, so that might explain it.

[TheThan]

Think you guys need to check your sarcasm meters, they may need adjustments.

Seriously speaking though, I’ve come across the whole “mysterious” loner that’s an orphan and there is no one important in his life far too often for my taste.

I think this stems from players that focus too much on their character sheets. They start viewing their character as nothing more than stats and abilities and they forget their character is a living breathing person with a (potentially) rich history and background. So when asked to produce a background they take an easy copout and go “amnesia” or some such.

Anyway I think it’s a good idea to introduce new players to the concepts of roleplaying before even letting them touch dice, that way they don’t fall into the same sort of trap the rest of us have.

[The Big Dice]

I'm not a "storyteller" type GM. In fact, I hate that paradigm. If you want to tell a story, go write a book already! That said, I do think plot and incident are very important driving forces for an RPG. Most of my players are happy to hit things and take their stuff for the most part. But I like to subvert their preferences a little from time to time.

Things like after they defeat the minions of the BBEG's henchman, the henchman might try to cut a deal rather than the usual fight-or-flight response. This keeps the players off balance a little, as what seemed to be a climactic combat suddenly turns into a roleplay heavy scene. I think of this as giving them what they want, just not in the way they expect it.

Another thing I like to do to keep people interested is the bait and switch. An obvious one is sending them off to do some great deed when they get attacked by a werewolf near what they thought was simply going to be a rest stop village. Except investigating the village turns up nothing, nobody will say anything about the werewolf. Until the next night, which just happens to be a full moon and the players find out that everyone in the village is a lycanthrope.

That last one is another thing you can use to keep people interested, and keep monsters as more than just a source of XP. Turn the event into a moral dilemma. Once they find out the whole village is a nest of lycanthropes, what do they do? Wipe the place out including the women and children, Mannequin Skywalker-style? Run? Try and hide for the night and find out what is going on the next day, when they can talk to people instead of having wolfmen try to rip their faces off? Let the players decide.

My style tends to be a bit more comic book, in that I don't always know how I'm going to resolve a situation until I sit down to plan a session. Sometimes I might use a beat chart to plan out roughly the direction things are going in, especially if I've got a particular scene in mind. Other times I'll let the actions of the players over the last few sessions guide the way. And sometimes the players might give me an idea mid session. They see something complex in a situation I thought was simple, but their idea was better than mine. And so my flight plan goes out the window.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to giving the players a sense that they are in control, but that the world around them responds to what they do.

[Human Paragon 3]

Wow, super delayed double post.

[Kaun]

Wow, super delayed double post.

Yeah i think they just changed something in the Matrix!

[Superglucose]

One of the major, MAJOR ways of keeping this is letting PCs survive. Find excuses to let them go and come back with better defenses. There is nothing more frustrating to a group of players than having to come up with reasons why people would continue with everyone dropping like flies around them.

[Private-Prinny]

One of the major, MAJOR ways of keeping this is letting PCs survive. Find excuses to let them go and come back with better defenses. There is nothing more frustrating to a group of players than having to come up with reasons why people would continue with everyone dropping like flies around them.

This, while good in theory, can not be followed all of the time. If PCs can't die, then there's no sense of danger, no thrill left in the combat. If the DM has a Deus ex Machina up his sleeve for every boss fight, then the PCs become spectators in their own game. Once you get to a high enough level to be casting Resurrection, PC death is fair game.

Besides, the death of an established character can be a plot hook in and of itself.

[Superglucose]

I never said PCs should be immortal. I said, "If it is reasonable to let the PCs escape, let them escape." Yes, your pursuers decide you're not worth chasing after for whatever reason, or they accidentally lose the trail, or whatever. No, they don't magically let you just walk out the front door without trying to stop you.