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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Stop me if you've heard this one: A ghost, a grimlock, and a sahuagin walk into a bar. The ghost can't pick up any mugs, the grimlock can't read the menu, and the sahuagin needs to ask the barkeep for water every few hours so he can stick his head in it and avoid suffocating. Then a dragon accidentally sits on all of them.

    In a D&D 'verse, you need more than a wheelchair ramp and Braille signs to accommodate your patrons. What are all the potential issues that can come up when all sorts of creatures attempt to use a shared space, and how do we resolve them? Ideally we would have cost-effective solutions that are inherent to a place; "require everybody to buy scrolls of polymorph and turn into humans" is sort of missing the point of the entire exercise.

    If specifics help, let's use the bar example - we want as many kinds of monsters as possible to come into one single establishment and mingle for the night.

    Monstrous drawback Solution
    Non-sighted Braille or analogues for vibration, sound, or scent-based "sight"
    Mute (no vocal chords, no mouth) Sign language (unless lacking limbs)
    Incorporeal; cannot manipulate objects Ghostwalk ectoplasm, serren wood (bows, arrows, and bolts only though), ghostwall shellac (temporary), riverine
    No prehensile appendages Loans of collar of perpetual attendance or hand of the mage (expensive)
    No movement at all ???
    Aversion to certain materials and symbols Don't use them (sorry clerics, take off your holy symbols)
    Cannot breathe air Chamber of Airy Water (SBG)
    Massive size ???
    Minute size ???
    Auras and similar attacks that can't be turned off ???
    Bright light/sunlight aversion Mood lighting or even dark dining
    Extreme cold or heat dependency Climate-controlled rooms

    Thoughts for more monstrous "disabilities"? Ideas on handling them?

    It probably goes without saying that non-sapient entities (such as vermin or animals) need not be considered, unless there are sapient versions with the same "body type" (awakened animals, sentry oozes).
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2016-01-04 at 11:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Forrestfire's Avatar

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Ghostwalk has ectoplasm, which can be treated relatively cheaply to function as literally any mundane item. It can be made with minor and major creation as if it were vegetable matter, and counts as a ghost touch object.

    It's probably one of the cheaper ways of making things accessible to incorporeal creatures. A higher-magic world might have items that generate what you need when you need it, or maybe ones that psychic reformation the Ghostly Grasp feat onto incorporeals who for some reason haven't taken it.

    There's also serren wood (the Eberron material you noted) (which is from the Book of Exalted Deeds, and only works on bows, arrows, and bolts), and the possibility of coating things with a ridiculously thin layer of riverine using a fabricate spell. The latter would also do great things with making your bar less broken after adventurer bar fights.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Stronghold Builder's Guidebook has Chamber of Airy Water, breatheable by both aquatic and air breathers.

    Antimagic Shackles set the precedent for equippable, personal magic (and Su) suppression.
    Last edited by Xervous; 2016-01-03 at 08:37 PM.
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Gaze attack monsters can be handled by a blindfold + seeing eye creature.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    Gaze attack monsters can be handled by a blindfold + seeing eye creature.
    Blindfold of True Darkness removes the need for a seeing eye creature. Splits either way depending on whether 9k gp blindfolds or seeing eye attendants are more expensive.
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    Blindfold of True Darkness removes the need for a seeing eye creature. Splits either way depending on whether 9k gp blindfolds or seeing eye attendants are more expensive.
    A trained griffon is only 1500gp... So I imagine that a trained dog is significantly cheaper.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    A trained griffon is only 1500gp... So I imagine that a trained dog is significantly cheaper.
    In some cases we'd also have to consider the opportunity cost of the clutter produced by the dog's presence. Small, but still something worth noting.
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    Antimagic Shackles set the precedent for equippable, personal magic (and Su) suppression.
    Antimagic shackles are not ideal - they are frightfully expensive at 132k a pop, and rather than subject the wearer to an antimagic effect they simply radiate an AMF in a 5ft radius. This is problematic for incorporeal undead patrons, as well as creatures that rely on Su abilities to move around, perceive the environment, or otherwise go about their lives.

    Handing out Blindfolds of True Darkness is an idea, but I am not sure if gaze attacks are the greater problem here. The default is that gaze attacks can be turned off (and I can't think of any monsters with un-turn-offable ones), but that is not an option for attacks such as a mummy's Despair that always function.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    A mummy's despair is a once and done, so the mummy is just a somewhat annoying neighbor when he goes out and about (I played a mummy character once).

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Quote Originally Posted by ZamielVanWeber View Post
    A mummy's despair is a once and done, so the mummy is just a somewhat annoying neighbor when he goes out and about (I played a mummy character once).
    "Once and done" is a lot worse when you're chatting up a comely naga and suddenly freeze in fear. It's not disastrous by any means, but still not ideal. Consider also these:
    • A wraith or spectre will panic any seeing eye animals.
    • A lavawight or winterwight deals 2d10 damage to everything around it every round.
    • Demiliches have a fear aura without the 24 hour immunity clause (although many celestials have an aura that suppresses low level spell effects, fear is too high level for it).
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    "Once and done" is a lot worse when you're chatting up a comely naga and suddenly freeze in fear. It's not disastrous by any means, but still not ideal. Consider also these:
    • A wraith or spectre will panic any seeing eye animals.
    • A lavawight or winterwight deals 2d10 damage to everything around it every round.
    • Demiliches have a fear aura without the 24 hour immunity clause (although many celestials have an aura that suppresses low level spell effects, fear is too high level for it).
    Incorporeal Undead could have their own private basement room. They don't like sunlight anyways and can reach it by sticking in the ground. Just slap a sign outside and people can enter at their own risk.

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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    For immobile types a carpet of flying or similar will often work. Or more simply, a trolley.

    For those with auras ... Is there any way to set up something like project image, so they can interact without being present?

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Quote Originally Posted by avr View Post
    For immobile types a carpet of flying or similar will often work. Or more simply, a trolley.

    For those with auras ... Is there any way to set up something like project image, so they can interact without being present?
    Oh, that's not a bad idea - mirrors could be used to allow groups of patrons in different "zones" to see each other without necessarily being all that close together.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Beholder

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Gaze attacks should be dealt with by compulsory use of Sundark goggles from RotD by those who have gaze attacks, they're 10 gp and are simply cool shades.

    For huge people, small people, and people with auras, you could use Sentry Living Mass Reduce Person, Sentry Living Mass Enlarge Person, and Sentry Living Antimagic Field spells to constantly engulf them, of course, all the living spells would be properly instructed to do no harm to them.

    Oh, and you also have to find a way to deal with fiendish/axiomatic/anarchic cockroaches, I don't think other people would like to stay in a place where hyper-inteligent vermin eat.
    Last edited by MisterKaws; 2016-01-03 at 11:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    For auras, they do actually need line of effect so an invisible wall might let them interact with people without exposing them to the aura.

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Quote Originally Posted by Recherché View Post
    For auras, they do actually need line of effect so an invisible wall might let them interact with people without exposing them to the aura.
    Nice, Sentry Living Forcecage.

    Living spells sure are convenient.

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Non-sighted: telepathy from whatever source is most convenient, hire or bind a creature or find a cheap item. It'd need to be custom, but menus that telepathically impart their information shouldn't be difficult when there are magic items that telepathically impart their basic functions. Permanent Image can do everything but touch for cheap on stationary surfaces or just up in the air. A custom item or wondrous architecture of the Synesthete power ought to let anyone compensate for lack of touch, sight, or sound, and it's only a 1st level (personal) power with 10 min/level duration.

    Mute: telepathy again. Helm of Comprehending Languages or Room of Reading+something for them to write with.

    No prehensile appendages: Unseen Servant via Invisible Helper wondrous architecture, 1,500gp per servant. Or hire a commoner.

    No movement: Unseen Servant brings them their stuff, presumably they already got here somehow. Or have a wondrous doorway that drops a movement mode on anyone who is moved through it such as flight. Make a cheap floating platform based on Floating Disk, Levitate customer onto disk, customer is pushed around by Unseen Servant (or customer is just Levitated and pushed around, Boots Bauble of Levitation).

    Aversion to stuff: maybe an automatic illusion of some sort that censors religious symbols within the area? Materials can be detected with Locate Object but you need to know what to look for. There's a nice lantern that detects weapons in the Cityscape web enhancement, but it's not infinite duration. The Braizers of X Revealing in SBG give a precedent for indefinite detection being okay for stationary placement, make Braizers of Detection based on whatever spells are needed to detect whatever is considered harmful (I'm sure there's a Detect Minerals spell somewhere) and have it checked at the door. That said, I'm not sure I've ever seen an "aversion" that actually caused harm from mere proximity, and if your customers are so squeamish they can't abide having anything they dislike in the same room I can't imagine all the other precautions here getting any use. A holy symbol is equivalent to a weapon but isn't nearly as bad as a gaze attack.

    Size problems: depends on the size of the establishment. If you build the place sized for large creatures, huge creatures can at least squeeze in uncomfortably. An extradimensional area based on a spell that doesn't use size to determine capacity? Rope Trick doesn't care as long as you can climb the rope, 3,000gp as the Hole of Hiding from SBG again. Slide an alternate use of Bestow Curse/Greater past the DM, have someone who cast cast and remove it?

    Attacks that can't be turned off: more Bestow Curse shenanigans. Wide gaps between seating areas and/or individual rooms to just block the effects. Most acidic creatures such as oozes don't harm stone: all walls and furnishings are made of enhanced stone via the Hardening method of your choice, most auras will have trouble damaging an object with enough hardness since they're low damage.

    Light aversion: Sundark Goggles have been mentioned, you can also pick up a Dark Lantern from Tome of Magic for 2,000gp that will shade everything within 60' if you can't just have an unlit corner/private room or need to darken the halls on the way there.


    Other monster problems: heat/cold dependency, as in normal temperatures are harmful. Solution is climate controlled chamber, magical method is based on Darsson's Firey Furnace/Chilling Chamber out of Shining South, hour/level spells at 2nd. Blue Ice can keep a room cold but is crazy expensive, for heat you could of course just have bonfire or Fire Elemental hanging around, though I suppose a bound Ice Paraelemental or other creature could also do for keeping a room cold.
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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Temperature dependency is an excellent point. We'll have to put in hot tubs and allow public access to the wine cellar (as long as there is an adventurer to kill the rats down there).

    Where is the wondrous architecture stuff from, and what is a Room of Reading?
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Beholder

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    For creatures that cannot drink liquor, there's a Bard spell called Celebration (or something like that) that inebriates creatures that have stayed in its area for two rounds.

    The temperature issue brings up something else- what if a gang of fire elementals wants entry? Won't they heat up the room to uncomfortable temperatures?

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Where is the wondrous architecture stuff from, and what is a Room of Reading?
    All SBG, I think. A Room of Reading is a room that bestows read magic on anyone inside the room, and it won't work if you're not already literate, so I doubt it's any use, unless many grimlocks learn to write these days (well, I suppose they are literate, as long as they're not single-classed barbarians).
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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Read magic doesn't seem to be tremendously helpful for non-sighted characters. The inscriptions are not unintelligible because they are magic; they are unintelligible because the characters are blind.

    Also, can wondrous architecture be combined - for example, a Room of Airy Water and Reading?
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2016-01-04 at 12:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    Whoops, I was reading off the table and didn't re-check the main entry for the Room of Reading, though it was for reading mute creature writing rather than blind creature. That'd need to be custom then. Wondrous architecture can be stacked with no extra penalties, but it is measured in 20'x20'x10' areas (stronghold spaces) when it affects a whole area. The pricing is just 1/4 the normal continuous cost (the same as a resetting magic trap actually), but you can tell from the given effects that not all things are considered equal since there are some that only affect a specific square. Long duration passive effects can generally be applied to everyone in the room just fine.

    Regarding airy water of any sort, you'd still need to flood the room and dunk all the non-water breathers in water which will likely impugn their dining experience. It's usually meant for places that are already completely underwater. Swapping in Air Breathing (Stormwrack) in place of Water Breathing, while not a 1st party official published item, would have the exact same price and allow anyone to breathe air in the main room.
    Last edited by Fizban; 2016-01-04 at 08:32 PM.
    Fizban's Tweaks and Brew: Google Drive (PDF), Thread
    A collection of over 200 pages of individually small bans, tweaks, brews, and rule changes, usable piecemeal or nearly altogether, and even some convenient lists. Everything I've done that I'd call done enough to use in one place (plus a number of things I'm working on that aren't quite done, of course).
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    Default Re: Accessibility guidelines in a monstrous world

    A Hallow spell can add any of a number of spell effects to an area, but you can only get one spell effect that way, and I'm not sure which one would be more effective. Unfortunately, it also sets up a Magic Circle effect, which would be discriminatory against extraplanar patrons.
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