Test of Spite [3.5]

[Eurus]

Honestly, I don't think it makes much difference. I don't anticipate any fighter survivors at this stage of the challenge.

Neither do I, really. But if it's entertaining and gives me some much-needed practice, hey, win-win.

[PhoenixRivers]

Neither do I, really. But if it's entertaining and gives me some much-needed practice, hey, win-win.

If it makes you feel better, I didn't ban evocation.

[Eurus]

If it makes you feel better, I didn't ban evocation.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not entirely sure what tactics core-only wizards generally use (with calling/simulacra being banned). I mean, I know the standard "grease/solid fog and polymorph/shapechange good, fireball bad" philosophy (oh, and rope trick, can't forget that), I just don't generally see it in action enough to be familiar with how it actually works out.

[Prodan]

Extended Acid Arrow from 800 feet away whilst invisible, repeat and play keep away until enemy is dead.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

To be perfectly honest, I'm not entirely sure what tactics core-only wizards generally use (with calling/simulacra being banned). I mean, I know the standard "grease/solid fog and polymorph/shapechange good, fireball bad" philosophy (oh, and rope trick, can't forget that), I just don't generally see it in action enough to be familiar with how it actually works out.

Forcecage/Cloudkill is a good combo against beatsticks who forget to buy a Necklace of Adaptation...

[TheMadLinguist]

Can I ask this to be expanded to "any core race is allowable, so long as all your class levels are in fighter"?

[Prodan]

Can I ask this to be expanded to "any core race is allowable, so long as all your class levels are in fighter"?

Ghosts are not a race.

[Eurus]

Forcecage/Cloudkill is a good combo against beatsticks who forget to buy a Necklace of Adaptation...

Fortunately, that's a staple on every character that I ever make now, heh.

Extended Acid Arrow from 800 feet away whilst invisible, repeat and play keep away until enemy is dead.

Acid resistance crucial, got it. Maybe a brooch of shielding for good measure. And death ward, and freedom of movement, and a seeking enchantment on the rifle/laser gun, and a bunch of other stuff... it is kind of annoying that all of the fighter's cash has to go toward countering the wizard's most obvious tricks, while he can use all of his on coming up with new ones.

[Claudius Maximus]

I think I'll make a fighter for this. I'm not so sure you'll get such an easy win, if only because you're fighting 4x WBL and we have an action advantage.

Edit: What are the chargen guidelines? Average HP except for first? What kind of point-buy do we use?

[term1nally s1ck]

Ok, question 1...

How the **** do you enchant an antimatter rifle? It's ammo is different to most other weapons.

[TheMadLinguist]

Ghosts are not a race.

Disagree, on grounds of half-dragons being a race.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Against four fighters, Blastomancy actually works fairly well, considering they then have to choose between attacking or healing, none of them are likely to have a Ring of Evasion, since they need one for Freedom of Movement and either Spell Turning or Energy Resistance (Acid). Blast in all different kinds of flavors

Some tactics the fighters might want to use:

Necklace of Fireballs + Alchemist's Fire = "Brother Maynard, please fetch the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch".

Dust of Sneezing and Choking. Because AE Fort Save or Die is fun. And even if you make the fort save, you're still stun-locked.

[Eurus]

Dust of Sneezing and Choking. Because AE Fort Save or Die is fun. And even if you make the fort save, you're still stun-locked.

We're not using the ToS ban list?

EDIT: Also, question. If you put on a ring of invisibility and use it, can you then take it off and remain invisible for the effect's duration?

[Doc Roc]

Then I guess I'm going to have to make a hard allow list. I hate that.

[Claudius Maximus]

Are we allowed to combine or re-slot items?

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Does the Mark of the Depth's spell delaying ability allow the Warmarked to move away from the area while the spell is delayed, thereby allowing them to be unaffected by the spell?

For the fighter challenge, do we still need to take the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (futuristic) feat? And we get 30 batteries of ammo per weapon right?

Core includes Psionic feats and such?

Does Manyshot work with Futuristic weapons?

[Claudius Maximus]

While it's Phoenix's challenge, normally "Core" only means PHB, DMG, and MMI.

Manyshot specifically specifies arrows, so I don't think it would work with the futuristic weapons.

Are we able to enchant the ammo for these weapons?

[The Shadowmind]

The antimatter rifle can only be fired once per round. So looks like the laser pistol or laser rifle are the best options. Luckily Rapidshot doesn't have the arrow limitation. How the energy cells work with enchants is up to Phoenix or Doc Roc.
The Pistol energy cell is 50 shots, the rifle is 30 shots, and the antimatter rifles is 2 shots.

[Doc Roc]

Anything you would normally need to apply to an energy pack can instead be applied to a gun.
Right now, I believe the intent is to exclude the XPH and ELH, though as the challenge recurs, these restrictions will change. We expect that things will be crazy the first run, so we will run the challenge a few times.

[PhoenixRivers]

To be perfectly honest, I'm not entirely sure what tactics core-only wizards generally use (with calling/simulacra being banned). I mean, I know the standard "grease/solid fog and polymorph/shapechange good, fireball bad" philosophy (oh, and rope trick, can't forget that), I just don't generally see it in action enough to be familiar with how it actually works out.

Not a fan of Solid Fog in these kinda fights, actually. It doesn't directly accomplish a goal. I don't like falling into the wizard trap of putting 3 slots for time stop, 5 for sollid fog, 4 for fog cloud, 3 for waves of fatigue, and none for actually KILLING people. I've seen that disturbingly large amounts of high end wizards do that.

Calling may be out, but summoning is not, so the summon monster line is viable. Damage is, as well. Save or Lose/Save or Die effects are, also. Dominate monster is fun.

Extended Acid Arrow from 800 feet away whilst invisible, repeat and play keep away until enemy is dead.

Very low damage for an action. I'd Prefer something that when empowered and maximized, does MORE than 10 average damage at a time. Scorching Ray is much more fun. That, when maximized+empowered, hits 31 average damage per shot, and 3 shots.

Can I ask this to be expanded to "any core race is allowable, so long as all your class levels are in fighter"?

Any core race is allowable, provided you meet the challenge requirements. Those challenge requirements are 20 levels of wizard for the wizard, and 20 levels of Fighter for the fighter. That does equate to LA 0, RHD 0.

Forcecage/Cloudkill is a good combo against beatsticks who forget to buy a Necklace of Adaptation...

I'm not going to have a primary kill method with a lot of high level slot investment destroyed be a 9000gp item.

Acid resistance crucial, got it. Maybe a brooch of shielding for good measure. And death ward, and freedom of movement, and a seeking enchantment on the rifle/laser gun, and a bunch of other stuff... it is kind of annoying that all of the fighter's cash has to go toward countering the wizard's most obvious tricks, while he can use all of his on coming up with new ones.

I do have a lot of my WBL spent on metamagic rods. I love being able to metamagic High level slots with impunity.

I think I'll make a fighter for this. I'm not so sure you'll get such an easy win, if only because you're fighting 4x WBL and we have an action advantage.

I've accounted for Action Advantage. WBL is deadly for tricks, yes, but I know most of the deadly tricks for WBL, and think I'll do OK.

Edit: What are the chargen guidelines? Average HP except for first? What kind of point-buy do we use?

28 point buy.
Max the 1st HD, average the rest.

Fighters should be 10 + (19 x 5.5) + (Con x 20).
This will 114 + (Con mod x 20).

Ok, question 1...

How the **** do you enchant an antimatter rifle? It's ammo is different to most other weapons.

Antimatter shots will ignore DR, energy resistance, and antimagic. They will pick up whatever enhancements transfer from a ranged weapon to its ammo.

Cost is 300gp (for Masterwork) + Enhancement cost (2000gp for +1, 8000 for +2, 18000 for +3, etc).

Dust of Sneezing and Choking. Because AE Fort Save or Die is fun. And even if you make the fort save, you're still stun-locked.

I would advise against sneezing and choking. RAW, it's tossed in the air, which would include the tosser. It's also not hard for a wizard to be immune to Fort save effects and Stunning. Shapechange, anyone?

We're not using the ToS ban list?

EDIT: Also, question. If you put on a ring of invisibility and use it, can you then take it off and remain invisible for the effect's duration?

It's Core, not ToS, though the worst breaks should be avoided (things on the lines of Simulacrum, Gate abuse, etc). Reasoning is that if gate calling were not banned? I'd enter the arena with 50,000 Solars.

In like fashion, I expect players who know of extremely unbalanced items will avoid them. I'm not referring to things that are GOOD (ring of Freedom of movement, for example). I'm referring to things that are, by themselves, overpowered (Sneezing and Choking, Candles of Invocation, things along those lines). Also note that 1 shot items cost is multiplied by 5.

And yes on the ring.

Are we allowed to combine or re-slot items?

Combined items is a part of the MIC, which is out of Core. Reslotting should be fine, so long as the DMG guidelines for Slot affinity are followed.

For the fighter challenge, do we still need to take the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (futuristic) feat? And we get 30 batteries of ammo per weapon right?

30 packs total, not per weapon. And if you don't want a -4 with the gun, yes, a weapon proficiency is recommended. I don't think that the fighters are hurting for feats.

Core includes Psionic feats and such?

Does Manyshot work with Futuristic weapons?

Core does not include Psionics. Core is PHB, MM, and DMG. Other sections of the SRD (UA, Psionics, etc) are not Core.

Antimatter Rifles have a hard cap of 1 shot per round in their description. Weapons without such a limitation (laser weapons) can benefit from feats which enhance any projectile weapon (but not ones that are limited to specific weapons, such as crossbows, or bows), such as rapid shot and the like.

Are we able to enchant the ammo for these weapons?

The energy packs are essentially quivers. The shots are actually created by the weapon, so cannot be enchanted. As they're already No DR, no Energy Resist, and function in Antimagic, I'd say they're ok.

Anything you would normally need to apply to an energy pack can instead be applied to a gun.

This does not apply to "Specific weapons" such as arrows of slaying, only enhancements.

Right now, I believe the intent is to exclude the XPH and ELH, though as the challenge recurs, these restrictions will change. We expect that things will be crazy the first run, so we will run the challenge a few times.

Indeed, though I pity anyone who offers to open PrC's. I expect to lose control of the process after round 1, as additional handicaps are put in place.

[Doc Roc]

In the second round, we'll probably expand some things, and add a couple more rules.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Indeed, though I pity anyone who offers to open PrC's. I expect to lose control of the process after round 1, as additional handicaps are put in place.

Incantatrix, anyone? Archmage, while powerful, doesn't hold a Candle of Invocation to either Incantatrix OR Initiate of the Sevenfold Cheese. I know what I'd pick if I was offered the option to have one PrC in my wizard's build...

[Claudius Maximus]

Combined items is a part of the MIC, which is out of Core.

There's the "Multiple different abilities" option in the DMG, which multiplies the cost of the cheaper half by 1.5. Is that allowed?

[PhoenixRivers]

There's the "Multiple different abilities" option in the DMG, which multiplies the cost of the cheaper half by 1.5. Is that allowed?

They're a subset of the guidelines for magic item creation, which are estimates, rather than prices. Too much Rule 0 there.

Incantatrix, anyone? Archmage, while powerful, doesn't hold a Candle of Invocation to either Incantatrix OR Initiate of the Sevenfold Cheese. I know what I'd pick if I was offered the option to have one PrC in my wizard's build...

It's still core, even with a PrC. The inclusion of PrC wasn't meant to counter the core restriction, though, again, depending on performance, more options may be opened later (psionic feats, other classes, etc)... Those are not at my discretion, but at the Doc's.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I might be open to running a dungeon run this summer. Mostly combat. Any takers? I'd probably only want 2 or 3 people.

[Nohwl]

I might be open to running a dungeon run this summer. Mostly combat. Any takers? I'd probably only want 2 or 3 people.

i've got nothing better to do, so i'll give it a shot.

[Arakune]

Disagree, on grounds of half-dragons being a race.

Wasn't half-dragons (and most half-something) templates that you can apply to any/some X?

[PhoenixRivers]

I might be open to running a dungeon run this summer. Mostly combat. Any takers? I'd probably only want 2 or 3 people.

I'd be willing to gofer it, probably.

[Mushroom Ninja]

Now that I've finally gotten my archivist fixed up and approved, is anyone up for an exhibition?

[9mm]

I might be open to running a dungeon run this summer. Mostly combat. Any takers? I'd probably only want 2 or 3 people.

Yojimbo is always down for dungeon crawling; so will Marcus, Boomer, Slade, or John if I win a qualifier with them.

Speaking of Marcus; he's approved and ready and willing