What do you think of when you hear "Dragon"?

[The Tygre]

How I wish that were true, but D&D says otherwise. Some truly "lofty" examples from Draconomicon:

...and so on. Very dignified creatures, concerned with only the highest pursuits, indeed.

Hey, immortals get bored too. It can't all be 'Find the Cure for the Anthraxus Plague' or 'Rearrange the stars to make myself god via epic truenaming'. Sometimes, it's just fun to watch the puppets dance. And I don't recall 'powerful' ever meaning 'devoid of personality'. Where do you think Half-Dragons come from, after all?

[Optimystik]

Dragon Magazine ceased to exist when it ceased to be a magazine.

My laptop and I will enjoy all the "not-magazines" that you and Tygre fail to read.

I don't see the big hang-up over paper anyway. As long as the info gets into our heads, does it really matter how?

Hey, immortals get bored too. It can't all be 'Find the Cure for the Anthraxus Plague' or 'Rearrange the stars to make myself god via epic truenaming'. Sometimes, it's just fun to watch the puppets dance. And I don't recall 'powerful' ever meaning 'devoid of personality'. Where do you think Half-Dragons come from, after all?

There's a difference between "personality" and just plain being petty.

I mean, seriously. A CR25 dragon running a salt mine? Worrying about profit margins? I wish I could make this stuff up, I really do. But the worst part isn't that they sat down and statted out this waste of oxygen, it's that I could easily picture a CR25 dragon setting out to do something so utterly banal. To paraphrase Vaarsuvius; "I find it entirely in keeping with what I know of them."

[The Tygre]

There's a difference between "personality" and just plain being petty.

I mean, seriously. A CR25 dragon running a salt mine? Worrying about profit margins? I wish I could make this stuff up, I really do. But the worst part isn't that they sat down and statted out this waste of oxygen, it's that I could easily picture a CR25 dragon setting out to do something so utterly banal. To paraphrase Vaarsuvius; "I find it entirely in keeping with what I know of them."

I think it's a matter of reverse engineering. Fluff was made around the crunch, and the crunch suffers for it. Truth is you're on the money; I could see a younger dragon, or even an adult running a salt mine or a thieve's guild, but a great wyrm? They don't run salt mines, they run salt, period. They don't run a thieve's guild, they run the international mafia.

Who knows; maybe the dragons wrote their own fluff and are just being modest?

[Optimystik]

I could overlook it as an error, except they have sample dragons at every variety and age category in that book, so there's already an Adult and Young Adult Blue in the same chapter as he is. I limited my brief scan for banality to the older ones (Mature Adult+) for precisely the reason you described.

I just find D&D dragons to be on average as boring and childish and disappointing as D&D deities, for precisely the same reasons. With great power comes great ennui it seems.

[The Tygre]

I just find D&D dragons to be on average as boring and childish and disappointing as D&D deities, for precisely the same reasons. With great power comes great ennui it seems.

Aye, I can see your angle. But I often see it in reverse; dragons, chaos incarnate, spawn of Tiamat the Primordial deep, unstoppable engines of destruction and might, paragon of all the beasts of the earth and sky and sea. What man can stand against them? What god can aspire to the energy in their veins, the sheer terror and awe they garner at a mere shadow's passing? Brood of monsters such as Typhon and Dahaka, drawing civilization ever closer back to the savage cradle of prehistory.

Then I remember that this is D&D, and that the dragons can talk. And they all have the personalities of jackdaws/Garfield the cat.

[Dienekes]

Smaug and St. George's dragon. Either an intelligent but uncaring monster or a very powerful animal.

Also Optimystik, Drumduruhullwix sounds awesome, thank you for introducing him to me.

[Ormur]

Yes, Smaug, but more morally ambiguous so they aren't just monsters.

[AslanCross]

Dragons are the ultimate monster. They're intelligent, can fly, are physically powerful and have great control over the elements, whether it be through their breath or their magic. This ideal came from before my exposure to D&D.

I strongly dislike their depiction as large pests that terrorize little villages. At least in Smaug's case it was justified--he's pretty much the last dragon alive and has grown complacent. But back during Morgoth's time? The dragons were superweapons.

I think that if they're really as powerful and as intellectually-gifted as they're crunched out to be, they'd better be more than just enormous troglodytes. (Why WOULD you live in a cave anyway if you're that big?)

They should be scholars, warriors, generals, tyrants, and the like--movers and shakers in the world. They might not care about society per se, but they will at the very least use them as servants or even befriend them. They could be benevolent dictators or ruthless conquerors.

I think metallic dragons are awesome, but I really don't like the dragon color-coding. "Always" alignments are great for outsiders, but creatures of flesh and blood? Not so much.

[PhoenixRivers]

My sig carries my view.

Dragons are intelligent magical creatures with centuries of life experience, and a hell of a survival instinct. The level of skill they can possess is staggering, able to easily perform feats that are normally reserved for the most epic character.

Their hubris can undo them, but I generally feel that a creature doesn't survive for a millennium by having an excess of brazen impulsiveness.

[Pronounceable]

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I'm somewhat surprised this hasn't come up.
...
As for DnD dragons: They're a bunch of overgrown pests. I'd say Lecter comparison doesn't fit, as they aren't usually a tenth as cool. Dracocides should've been invented by now.

For dragons in general: I don't share the dragonfapping that seems to be strangely prevalent in fantasy circles. When they're there, they must be a sort of great obstacle, some terrible foe that has to be vanquished, one that instills nothing but fear and hate. Not some awesome incarnate that's to be gawked at in stupefied wonder and worshipped for being personification of sugar spice and everything nice.

[PhoenixRivers]

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I'm somewhat surprised this hasn't come up.
...
As for DnD dragons: They're a bunch of overgrown pests. I'd say Lecter comparison doesn't fit, as they aren't usually a tenth as cool. Dracocides should've been invented by now.

For dragons in general: I don't share the dragonfapping that seems to be strangely prevalent in fantasy circles. When they're there, they must be a sort of great obstacle, some terrible foe that has to be vanquished, one that instills nothing but fear and hate. Not some awesome incarnate that's to be gawked at in stupefied wonder and worshipped for being personification of sugar spice and everything nice.

Remember: Most dragons, by mid age, have an average intelligence approaching Einstein, by the book, with good abilities. Judging by longevity and intelligence alone, they should be a force to be reckoned with, whether they are benevolent, antagonistic, or anything in between.

[Graymayre]

When I hear dragon, I hear the forbidden. I see a representation of great power. It is a personification of what it is like to truely be great. The Chromatic dragons tell us that every use of power has a dark side. It would be very easy to abuse the powers given, to become twisted and malformed by the dangerous implications. The metallic dragons speak of a different story. They show that not all roads lead to horrifying changes. With great power comes great responsibility a wise uncle once said. These creatures are a representation that power, regardless of size, should be used by the holder. The holder should not be used by the power.

[Fortuna]

I think first of what they have become: boring, overused monsters of the week.

I think second of what I remember them as: fearsome beasts capable of laying waste to nations, slain as the conclusion to a glorious hero's quest.

I think third of what I think they should be: intelligent creatures, akin perhaps to the queen and the chessplayer rolled into one, knowing what happens and controlling it even as they bring immense power to bear. A dragon should be a character, a challenge that must be overcome by wit, by charm or by blade even as its slayer marvels at the eldritch beauty and the ancient power of the creature that has been laid low before him. A noble beast, having rules, and knowing when the game is over, being above petty revenge and being able to surrender with grace at the conclusion.

Also, Dragonheart was an awesome movie.

[Samb]

I'd just like to throw in the fact that magic-less dragons exist in D&D - look at the Xorvintaal template in MM5. It's pretty nifty.

That is some great advice. Makes for a great quest/mission hook and/or a BBEG.

Dragons are one of the D's in D&D. They represent everything of potency the game has to offer; martial, arcane and even psionics (gem dragon). I personally like dragons in D&D because they are not mindless brutes.

[Morty]

{Scrubbed}
As far as what dragons are supposed to be - huge, flying, firebreathing lizards that sow terror and destruction once in a while because only an army or great heroes can defeat them. Giving them sentience is acceptable, albeit stretching it, and spellcasting dragons are a big No. It's already flying, nigh-invunerable and breathes fire, why give it intelligence and magic powers? It's also a good idea for dragons to be extinct and exist only in myths, but that depends on the setting.

[Saph]

I'm with Eldariel here. I see dragons as the ultimate D&D monsters, with a vast array of powers and the age and experience to use them all to maximum effect. They're intended to be scary and intimidating, and I generally make sure they are.

Plus, they're just cool. Draconomicon's one of my favourite books for that reason - I love the huge variety of dragon personalities and all the details about their anatomy and outlook on the world.

[Emmerask]

a mix of 1) and 2)
and of course:

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[Dr.Epic]

Depends if their scales are shiny.

[paddyfool]

This gets a bit close to RL religion, but on the matter of base desires, I'd be tempted to homebrew a range of dragons based along the lines of the seven deadly sins. Each one a race of monsters bred by dark gods or fiends to embody one or another of the base instincts of the mortal races. From the classic list, Lust, Avarice, Gluttony, Wrath, and Pride would all have a pretty obvious fit. Envy would be trickier, but doable (perhaps have this the least of the seven in size and power, and apt to overcompensate in its cruelty to "lesser races" on account of its own shortcomings), and Sloth would best be done by emphasising the sense of "callous indifference": a powerful and uncaring monster that relieves its boredom by capturing and playing with prey as a cat with a mouse; and the more intelligent the prey, the better. Possibly you could give them the Latin names to keep them from sounding too silly (Draco Luxuria; Draco Gula etc.), and have them alongside some lesser ancestor in the form of natural dragons that were simply as good or bad as the rest of us (this setting idea is for Fantasy Craft, which has a playable race called "Drakes" which should fit this nicely), but widely feared on account of their warped and monstrous kin...

... but no inherently good dragons. The odd exception among the seven hell-bred kinds might rebel against its bred-in nature, and the natural kind could behave as they like... but the inherently "good" equivalent in this particular setting should be something very different to a dragon.

[CapnVan]

Wormy.
Or, if you prefer, "Woimy".

[Runestar]

I can envision the dragon as some sort of gish, using its spellcasting to augment its already impressive melee capabilities. After all, its damage spells almost always pale in comparison to what it could do with a full attack+power attack. Load up a dragon with swift/immediate action spells and it becomes even more formidable in combat.

For example, things get ridiculous with an admixtured breath weapon (a great wyrm red does 48d10 fire damage!). Bite of the werebear is just nasty. Even lower lv spells such as scintillating scales can give ray-mages fits.

Complete mage gave it arcane spellsurge. Now it can arcane fusion as a free action in addition to full-attacking.

[PhoenixRivers]

I can envision the dragon as some sort of gish, using its spellcasting to augment its already impressive melee capabilities. After all, its damage spells almost always pale in comparison to what it could do with a full attack+power attack. Load up a dragon with swift/immediate action spells and it becomes even more formidable in combat.

For example, things get ridiculous with an admixtured breath weapon (a great wyrm red does 48d10 fire damage!). Bite of the werebear is just nasty. Even lower lv spells such as scintillating scales can give ray-mages fits.

Complete mage gave it arcane spellsurge. Now it can arcane fusion as a free action in addition to full-attacking.

Ray Deflection
Scintillating Scales
Death Ward
True Seeing
Arcane Sight
Effulgent Epuration
Wraithstrike
Righteous Might (buffs reach, damage, AND breath weapon size)
Dimensional Lock (Awesome Lair Buff)
Control Winds
Superior Invisibility
Stormrage

There are more, those strike me as particularly fun for gishy dragons.

[Samb]

The first thing is definetly the annoyance at the dragon fanboyism so prevalent in gaming nowadays, especially among WoTC designers, whose recipe for making everything better for the last few years has been "moar dragons".

{Scrubbed}

[Skaven]

Two things:

1. A now-deceased magazine that was an integral part of gaming across the decades.

Me too.

I bought that magazine for so many years, from AD&D - 3.5. I miss it.

[Zen Master]

I think: Hopefully it's an inn, or a ship, or some such. I really hope the DM doesn't degrade dragons to something you can actually use in real play.

They are like gods in that regard - you know they exist, they are powerful beyond measure, and should you meet one, your doom is assured.

Only people who really don't like dragons should ever use them.

[Yora]

I like dragons as very supernatural beings. Not quite spirits or divine, but definately much more than common creatures. They take the role of physical demi-gods. Many of them live in locations inaccesible to most people, but some decide that they want to rule humanoid nations, and then they just do it.

[Kobold-Bard]

They are the ultimate foe, able to do everything you can ad more. And they've had hundreds of years to master them all.

I also think of prestige. Everything to do with dragons is a symbol of superiority. Dragonhide armour, Dragon mounts etc.

I also think of the randiest creatures in existence. They can breed with everything. Seriously, everything

[Yora]

But they are not humans: Just because they can, doesn't mean they have to.

[Weimann]

Breath weapon. In fact, narrower: fire breath. To me, a dragon need not be big or particularly intelligent; in fact, I tend to imagine them animalian and savage, and they breath fire.

Katla from the swedish children's book the Brothers Lionheart is a quintessential dragon to me. She lives in her cave, and when called out she coes and wrecks havoc all around. She's a big, mean lizard who happens to have a flame thrower in her nose.

Dragons CAN be sentient, spell casting savants or noble warriors, but that's a refinement, not a prerequisite. The main thing is the fire.

[Kobold-Bard]

But they are not humans: Just because they can, doesn't mean they have to.

They don't have to, but they still do Just like Stephen Fry.