Caltrops and Marbles

[Magdela]

Hi there,

I don't post much but play D&D on a regular basis. I was flipping through the PHI in the adventuring supplies section when I saw caltrops, and already had a plan to use marbles and maybe trip my enemies by throwing them.

The idea was to simply grab a handful of both (or keep pouches and make them likes "uses" 100 marbles and 50 caltrops in a bag) and throw them at whatever was coming towards me.

Now, my DM says that the combo just won't work, since they'll just step on the caltrops instead of the marbles. I'm pretty confused by this, so could you guys enlighten me as to why this doesn't work?

[TheYoungKing]

Because your DM says it doesn't. No, really, that is about the only reason.

[Darkxarth]

The caltrops are taller than the marbles? Really, I don't see why this wouldn't work. After all, it's not like it affects that many different kinds of creatures, and it's not that good when it does. Talk with your DM and ask why it won't work. If he gives you a good explanation, accept it; if he explains that it is too powerful, make sure that he understands the limitations of both items; if he simply says, "Because I said so," try appealing to your fellow players to see if they can help convince the DM to either give a reason (even if it is an out-of-character explanation that he thinks the combo will wreck his game/plot/NPC) or allow the marbles + caltrops. Just don't push too hard, it's a cool combo, but not worth endangering the game over an argument.

[ghashxx]

While there's no reason it wouldn't work, there is the fact that marbles, in all reality, wouldn't work all that great in the first place. Have you ever actually upended a bag of those things, throwing them away from you to make certain they don't get where you're standing? We're talking about those things going in every direction. So when you look in front of you it's like a cone spell, but with only a few marbles in each 5' square. Really a kind of silly idea, but people use it in DnD anyhoo because while it's silly, it's also really really funny

[Magdela]

Really a kind of silly idea, but people use it in DnD anyhoo because while it's silly, it's also really really funny

Maybe I should throw banana peals and mouse traps too. :P

My group isn't that serious(in the sense that we like playing, but we moreso hang out), and we're all fine with Rule Zero. It was simply an interesting idea for a 5th level party.

To clarify, my DM said it was something along the lines of the enemy steps on caltrops or marbles. Since you can't really step on both at the same time.

Right now, I'm just carrying around a bag of 400 marbles as an "oh **** he's going after the squishy sorcerer" option.

[Person_Man]

If a DM counts caltrops or marbles as weapons, you can draw them as a free action with Quickdraw, and then drop them around the battlefield as you move as a Free Action as well. It's a nifty low level tactic. Even without Quickdraw, when I'm in a dungeon I'll often carry a Hefty Bag of caltrops and a heavy crossbow. First round of combat I drop the bag (spreading the caltrops into my square) as a free action, fire the crossbow (standard action), and then move 5 ft backwards while drawing a reach weapon (Move Action). Remember, caltrops trigger when you move INTO a square that has them (not out) or when you spend a round fighting in them. Then (assuming you're in a narrow hallway) enemies are forced to move through the caltrops and the threatened area of my weapon if they want to attack me in melee, and each round they stand in the caltrops they're potentially hurt by them again.

[Darrin]

The idea was to simply grab a handful of both (or keep pouches and make them likes "uses" 100 marbles and 50 caltrops in a bag) and throw them at whatever was coming towards me.

Now, my DM says that the combo just won't work, since they'll just step on the caltrops instead of the marbles. I'm pretty confused by this, so could you guys enlighten me as to why this doesn't work?

The first problem is by throwing two types of weapon in the same bag, you're trying to break the action economy. A bag of caltrops would be one weapon, and a bag of marbles would be a second weapon. It sounds like you want to throw them with one single attack... this isn't normally allowed without some feats to allow it, or it might be possible without feats, but would be a full-round action with some pretty severe penalties (I might treat it like Two-Weapon Fighting, with one primary ranged attack and one off-hand ranged attack).

One possible solution would be to work with your DM to create a new thrown weapon, which would be something like "bag of caltrops & marbles", basically a two-pound bag with half the normal number of caltrops and half the normal number of marbles. You'd need to come up with some house rules on how to treat this... maybe every time a creature enters that square, 50/50 chance to treat it as either filled with caltrops or filled with marbles. Or if you're really insistent about throwing 2 lbs of caltrols and 2 lbs of marbles at once, treat the square as containing both but take a -4 penalty on the attack roll to throw the bag because it's so unwieldy.

As far as having both caltrops and marbles in the same square... I don't quite buy his argument, but he's the DM and if he says that's what happens in his game, there's probably no point in arguing. However, if you're trying to make a RAW argument, there's nothing in the rules that says you can't spread both caltrops and marbles in the same square. A creature entering that square would get attacked by the caltrops as normal, and since he's being attacked in a square with unstable footing, per the Balance rules he's considered flat-footed on the caltrops attack. Per the Marbles rules, he'd also have to make a Balance check for "moving through or fighting" in the square. If the caltrops hit and he takes damage, the Balance rules say he has to make another Balance check.