How strong is spell resistance?

[Tinydwarfman]

And when should one be able to get it? I am in the process of making a homebrew vestige (5th level) that grants SR equal to 10 or 11 + EBL. But this got us debating on another question, which is how strong is SR in general? should it be available by 10th level? And how powerful should it be at any given time. I am under the impression that it is not all that amazing, and a smart caster would be able to either bypass it or boost his CL enough for it not to matter. What are you thoughts playgrounders?

[Gnaeus]

In my experience, it depends a lot on optimization level and the specific classes involved.

Newb wizard/Sorc will likely have problems with SR. He won't know where to go to get the good spells

Slightly experienced wiz/Sorcs may or may not have problems with SR. They may be highly specialized into an area that isn't SR immune. The wizard can always fix this problem by learning new spells.

Well built wiz/Sorcs can dominate SR. Either by picking SR:No spells, or batmanning around it with buffs, using spells to alter the battlefield, or casting other spells (like true cast or assay SR).

More specialist classes can have trouble though. Something like a Dread Necromancer, even if well built, might have no/few SR:no spells on his class list, few buffs, and might really have to jump through hoops to be useful in that fight.

[Saph]

SR is a useful defence, but it's generally stronger for monsters than PCs. The problem with PCs having spell resistance is that it works on friendly spells too, so if an ally tries to cast haste or something on you in the middle of combat they'll have to beat your own SR.

However, by the same token, most monsters don't have caster level boosts, so if for some reason you're facing a bunch of SLA-using enemies and can get around the buff issue, it's handy. Even if an enemy has a high enough CL to beat your SR fairly often, it's one extra layer of defence.

[Zeta Kai]

You can gauge the intended relative power of SR by reviewing how much it costs to make magic items that grant it. Adding SR13 to a piece of armor is a +2 bonus; SR15 is a +3 bonus, SR17 is a +4 bonus, & SR19 is a +5 bonus. Also, according to the Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values table, making a magic item that grants SR costs 10,000 gp per point over SR 12, & the minimum is SR13.

So, what does that mean? Well, if you look at the WBL, you can figure out if a character can afford a 9,000gp armor (+1 armor with SR13 only) or a 10,000gp item (SR13). Obviously, the armor is a much better deal, especially when you look at how their SRs both scale, but the point is clear: SR13 is the bottom floor, & a character shouldn't have that until they have ~10Kgp in disposable income.

[Prodan]

Aren't those pieces of armor overpriced?

[Tinydwarfman]

You can gauge the intended relative power of SR by reviewing how much it costs to make magic items that grant it. Adding SR13 to a piece of armor is a +2 bonus; SR15 is a +3 bonus, SR17 is a +4 bonus, & SR19 is a +5 bonus. Also, according to the Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values table, making a magic item that grants SR costs 10,000 gp per point over SR 12, & the minimum is SR13.

So, what does that mean? Well, if you look at the WBL, you can figure out if a character can afford a 9,000gp armor (+1 armor with SR13 only) or a 10,000gp item (SR13). Obviously, the armor is a much better deal, especially when you look at how their SRs both scale, but the point is clear: SR13 is the bottom floor, & a character shouldn't have that until they have ~10Kgp in disposable income.

I have always viewed SR items as way overpriced. I mean, by the time you can afford the armor, (level 7 or 8) It gets penetrated on a 5 if the caster does absolutely nothing to try and counteract it. I guess if that's the pricing though, I'll change my vestige to give 5 + EBL in SR.

[Redrat2k6]

Bariaurs are a +1 LA outsider race from the Planar Handbook that grants SR 11+class level along with some other goodies. So I know RAW it is available at level 2.

And IMO SR given by items is WAY overpriced.

Edit: Ninja'd on the overpricednessticity.

[Saph]

I have always viewed SR items as way overpriced. I mean, by the time you can afford the armor, (level 7 or 8) It gets penetrated on a 5 if the caster does absolutely nothing to try and counteract it. I guess if that's the pricing though, I'll change my vestige to give 5 + EBL in SR.

I'd leave it at 11+EBL. Remember that you frequently run into things with higher caster levels than you, which would make SR of 5+EBL almost worthless.

And also remember that SR can be a hindrance as well as a help; you have to lower it as a standard action to accept buffs from others. If you're dying and someone is trying to heal you with their CL 1 healing wand . . . well, do the math.

[Aharon]

Well, that's still a 20% chance of not being affected at that level. And you have to consider that there are also creatures with SLAs that can't do anything to improve their caster level. I guess the designers had those critters in mind when they designed the enhancement.

As their assumption is largely wrong, it's still overpriced, but not massively so

[Lycanthromancer]

I would make the vestige grant 12+HD spell resistance (specifically called out as doubling as power resistance), except you must use an immediate action to activate it for 1 round. A feat or two can raise the amount, if you wanna toss them in.

That way, you can be gibbed if caught by surprise, but it's a good defense for when you need it (and it won't screw you over when friendly casters try to surprise dominate buff and/or heal you.

Remember, it doesn't work against a lot of spells, nor will it work against Ex, natural, or Su abilities.

And make it available by early-mid levels (around 5-7). This seems strong, but not overly so.

[Person_Man]

Note that the Zceryll vestige grants the Psuedonatural template, which in turn grants good SR. (It also grants unlimited Summoning, which makes it one of the most powerful and versatile vestiges). It requires an effective Binder level of 12.

IMO, SR is just like Miss Chance. If possible, you want to get it, because it's a strong defense against many attacks. But with a few exceptions (Incarnate, a few +1 LA templates) it's very hard to get at low-lid levels for a reasonable investment.

[Eldariel]

The only decent Core source of PC SR is Spell Resistance the spell. As such, I'd base it off that, about. That is, that's 10 min/level so I'd balance it around that with duration and effect varying as necessary.

[Tinydwarfman]

Thanks guys, I think my argument for balance will be to show my DM Zycerll, and give it about the same SR, w/ the balancing factor that I don't get the rest of the Pseudonatural template, since it's one level lower. Here are some of the other abilities I'm going to give it (it's flavor is a dragon archmage who tried to become one with magic.)

Sovrax, Dragon Uncarnate

Granted Abilities:

Sovrax’s Experience: You gain a portion of Sovrax’s vast knowledge, granting you a +8 insight bonus to Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana), (History), and (The Planes) checks.

Breath of the Dragon: You may spew a great gout of flame in a 60 ft. cone, dealing EBL d8s in damage, ref for half. You may use this ability once every 5 rounds.

Sovrax’s Will: You gain a +4 bonus to Charisma, and the Force of Personality feat.

Dispel Magic: In his days as an archmage, Sovrax specialized in controlling magic itself, granting the binder the ability to use dispel magic with caster level equal to your EBL once every 5 rounds.

Spell Resistance: Sovrax’s experiments gave him even greater Spell Resistance than a normal dragon, allowing you to absorb magical energies with ease. You gain SR equal to 10 + your HD.

I'm going to remove one of the abilities, probably the SR since it really didn't sit well with him. Opinions? I'll post this in Homebrew when I finish writing up the fluff.

[Tinydwarfman]

Aww, no replies? . Well, one last bump before I let it die.

[Roland St. Jude]

Aww, no replies? . Well, one last bump before I let it die.

Sheriff of Moddingham: Don't double post - especially just to bump your thread.