[3.5] Wildshape variant ranger

[ghost_warlock]

I've been thinking about this a bit and would like some feedback.

The wildshape variant ranger from UA/SRD loses its combat styles to gain wildshape (small & medium-sized creatures only) and barbarian fast movement. This seems much more powerful than the standard ranger to me.

How would it affect the class balance to give it the PHBII shapeshifter wildshape-variant, instead? Just like it says in the shapeshift description, the character would lose their animal companion.

Obviously, if the character gained shapeshift at 1st level she would be much more powerful than normal. How about if the ranger's effective level for shapeshift was 1/2 her ranger level and she gained the ability at 2nd level?

[Optimystik]

The WS variant raises Rangers from tier 4 to tier 3. A further fix is not necessary.

"Small or Medium animals only" is hardly overpowered.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wild Shape Ranger only gets medium and small animal forms. Look at the Druid's class progression, and ignore everything but "Wild Shape X/day" and that's what the Ranger gets. You don't get Wild Shape Large at 8th, or Tiny or Plant at 11th and 12th, or Huge at 15th, or any of the Elemental Wild Shapes at all. You can turn into small and medium animals, and that's it. Typically this means turning into a Fleshraker every time, but there are some other useful utility forms.

The variant is definitely an improvement on the class, as it suddenly becomes viable without making it overpowered. It moves up from a Tier 4 to a Tier 3, not a huge jump but it suddenly stops feeling useless in a party full of Tier 1s and 2s. Add in Master of Many Forms 7+ and Warshaper and it outshines every other nonspellcaster in combat.

[Pluto]

It would be hard to break the Ranger either way.

I like shapeshift because it makes the concept move more elegantly. (I've invested in couple-charge wands of Aspect of the Wolf so the sudden ability to shapeshift is a bit less awkward for WS rangers before.)

The problem is that it takes away a lot of the features that make WS ranger unique (mechanical versatility with flight, burrow, swim) and replaces them with big numbers. This doesn't make the Morphin' Ranger a whole lot less powerful, but it makes it a bit less interesting.

I don't think it would be an unreasonable houserule though, if only to cut back on the paperwork.

[ghost_warlock]

So, essentially, using the shapeshift variant would be a reasonable power-level for a campaign where most of the other players stick to tier-3 and 4 classes while the casters in the group tend to just spam magic missile and burning hands?

As for overpowered, I didn't think either version of the wildshape ranger was overpowered, just more powerful than the standard ranger. Most of the other players are fairly new to the game, to be honest, while I'm generally just looking for something to entertain myself with in an otherwise mostly vanilla PHB1 group.

Reducing paperwork is part of the aim as well. Sort of, anyway. The DM is unlikely to allow fleshraker as a viable form for wildshape, or any dinosaur-like creatures for that matter, and will probably only allow MMI-animals. By using the shapeshift variant I can remove the issue altogether; both for him deciding what he will and will not allow and for me combing through stat blocks looking for the 'best' form for a given scenario.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Ask if such creatures exist or have existed anywhere in the game world, including on other planes. If yes, take ten on a Knowledge: Nature check (DC 10 + HD, with max ranks and a -3 Int modifier you're guaranteed to succeed) to represent that your character is familiar with a given creature and can Wild Shape into it. As far as game mechanics are concerned, you need only show that you are familiar with a creature to Wild Shape into it, as per the Druid's Wild Shape class feature description. As far as game mechanics are concerned, if you can make the appropriate Knowledge check then your character is unarguably familiar with that creature, therefore you can Wild Shape into one. There is nothing that says you cannot Wild Shape into an extinct creature.

If you want to play a Ranger that's better than what you get from the PHB, consider the Mystic Ranger variant (page 91). It delays your other class features in exchange for greatly improved spellcasting ability. Take the feat Sword of the Arcane Order from Champions of Valor (FR setting material) and you can use those Ranger spell slots to prepare any Sorcerer/Wizard spell that you can find in a spellbook. At Ranger 2-11 your spellcasting ability is just as powerful as that of a Sorcerer, though you get fewer spells/day. Use Polymorph to take the form of an Annis Hag, a Hydra, a Cave Troll or War Troll (MM3), or a Behir. You could get all the typical arcane gish buffs, on top of whatever Ranger spells you'd want to use. Be sure to pick up Natural Bond so your animal companion is stronger.

[Rainbownaga]

The problem with a shifter-variant wildshape ranger is that it can't use items in combat.

Shapeshifter druids still have the benefit of being able to shift cast whatever spell they need with a +wisdom medallion and the armour to keep them safe, but the shapeshifter ranger really doesn't have many uses for shifting into human form, and therefore very little to invest their items in.

[Greenish]

If you want to play a Ranger that's better than what you get from the PHB, consider the Mystic Ranger variant (page 91). It delays your other class features in exchange for greatly improved spellcasting ability. Take the feat Sword of the Arcane Order from Champions of Valor (FR setting material) and you can use those Ranger spell slots to prepare any Sorcerer/Wizard spell that you can find in a spellbook. At Ranger 2-11 your spellcasting ability is just as powerful as that of a Sorcerer, though you get fewer spells/day. Use Polymorph to take the form of an Annis Hag, a Hydra, a Cave Troll or War Troll (MM3), or a Behir. You could get all the typical arcane gish buffs, on top of whatever Ranger spells you'd want to use. Be sure to pick up Natural Bond so your animal companion is stronger.

Mystic Ranger loses animal companion (according to Crystal Keep anyway), but if you were prepared to spent a feat for it, there's Wild Cohort.

Oh, and nothing (except perhaps your DM) stops you from taking both AFCs.

[Doc Roc]

Hard to break the ranger with wildshape? If by hard, you meant painfully trivial, then yes. Lords of Madness and the Spell Compendium send their cordial regards.

[Pluto]

Hard to break the ranger with wildshape? If by hard, you meant painfully trivial, then yes. Lords of Madness and the Spell Compendium send their cordial regards.

It's not easy to inadvertently break it, then.

In a game with Candles of Invocation and Pazuzu, that's about the best a class can hope.

[Doc Roc]

It's not easy to inadvertently break it, then.

In a game with Candles of Invocation and Pazuzu, that's about the best a class can hope.

Every class I touch turns to ash.

[paddyfool]

I'd be tempted to go the other way, and houserule some way for Wildshape Ranger to get a greater range of forms, since this ability would really be the raison d'etre of this class. Either by giving them the option to trade 3rd, 4th & 5th Favoured Enemy (and the boosts to an existing favoured enemy) for getting Large at 10, Tiny at 15 and Huge at 20, or with feats:

Large Wildshape: Requires Wildshape Class Ability, BAB +9, ability to cast level 2 Ranger spells; character can use their Wildshape class ability to transform into Large animals with which they are familiar
Tiny Wildshape: Requires - Wildshape Class Ability, BAB +12, ability to cast level 3 Ranger spells
Huge Wildshape: Requires Wildshape Class Ability, BAB +18, ability to cast level 4 Ranger spells, Large Wildshape Feat

Either change would give the class a boost in power and options, but I don't think they'd be game-breaking... perhaps the question would be whether a Wildshape Ranger becomes more or less threatening than a ToB class at the equivalent level with these. Thoughts?

[Eldariel]

Well, you can already just go Master of Many Forms to get just that, so uhh, it wouldn't really change much. Bit better BAB, but no Ex Wildshape is a huge trade-down anyways.

[ghost_warlock]

Until last week the other players in my group weren't aware the Spell Compendium even existed.

Honestly, I could play a PHB1-only bard and break this game, so I'm not really looking for more powerful so much as simply something I haven't played before.

The idea behind the variant ranger use would be pretty much staying in shapeshift form 24/7 and pretending to be another character's animal companion. I thought about trying it with druid, but with a ranger I can dump-stat Int more and still have respectable skills (probably go human w/ 6 Int and max Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, and Survival).

As for equipment, there's always magical barding and amulets of magic fang, perhaps with bonus elemental damage added on.

[paddyfool]

Drat, now I'm thinking of setting up a Ranger-rich setting with at least 4 different brotherhoods of Tier 3ish rangers:
- 1 for Wildshape Rangers
- 1 for Mystic Rangers (although SotAO would not be allowed)
- 1 for some homebrew ToB-style Ranger (I'm sure somebody must have done one already).
- 1 for a suitably augmented standard Ranger (animal companion as Druid, slightly better Combat Styles).

Obviously, there'd be no Druids in this setting.

[ghost_warlock]

Druids in that setting could be a sun-worshiping adepts who specialize in megalithic architecture.

[Critical]

Wildshape Ranger is awesome with Master of Many Forms.

[Vizzerdrix]

Hmm... Aberrant Wildshape Mystic Ranger, into Daggerspell Shaper.


Either way, A&EG has the sickle of talons, and the khopesh of the loyal nminion. Both add their enchantment bonuses to natural attacks when you wild shape.