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Thread: Beguiler//Factotum 7 feat choice
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2010-05-04, 05:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Beguiler//Factotum 7 feat choice
Font of Inspiration just feels like too much cheese.
Vow of Nonviolence looks good. I mean, really good. +4 to DC? That's about as good as it gets. That's lowering their chance to save by 20%.
On the other hand, being an exalted vow, it comes with some pretty harsh restrictions. Specifically, not being able to cause suffering or kill helpless opponents.
I'm pretty sure throwing glitter in people's eyes to blind them while your party fighter stabs them counts as causing suffering.
I'm also reasonably sure that blinded, flatfooted enemy might be ruled as "Helpless" by the DM.Avatar by K penguin. Sash by Damned1rishman.
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2010-05-04, 05:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Beguiler//Factotum 7 feat choice
It's not really, unless you stack them and then spam extra actions.
Always ask everyone in the group before taking the Vow, since much like paladin's code of conduct, it forces you to police the actions of other characters. That said, if it fits you concept and you got the permission, it is one of the most powerful feats for a beguiler.
Glitterdust probably doesn't cause suffering, since it's magical blindness (willneg). The feat doesn't say your friends can't cause suffering to enemies they're fighting.
"Helpless" is a specific game term. If your DM rules such an enemy to be helpless, he's just trying to mess with you: chalk the feat up as a loss, since he's determined to take it away from you, and then coup de grâce the helpless villain.Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2010-05-04, 06:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Beguiler//Factotum 7 feat choice
Take Versatile Spellcaster, from Races of the Dragon. It allows you to spend two spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher. Some DMs may rule that Versatile Spellcaster alone grants knowledge of the next level of Beguiler spells, since the potential to cast the next level of spells is there regardless of whether you know any.
Get Obtain Familiar at 3rd, and any Bloodline feat (page 112-115) at 6th, which grants a spell known of every spell level. Now you have early access to the next level of Beguiler spells at any given level, including knowledge of the Beguiler spell list of that level, thanks to Versatile Spellcaster. Having a Familiar isn't bad either, you should probably get Improved Familiar at 9th (DMG version) for something more useful.
I'd skip the exalted feats and go Beguiler 6/ Mindbender 1/ Beguiler 13, for higher level Advanced Learning spells and the potential to get Mindsight from Lords of Madness. In that case, your Improved Familiar should probably be an Imp or Quasit, which you can gain with a LN or CN alignment. I'd get an Imp since their Suggestion ability would probably be more useful, plus I prefer lawful characters.
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2010-05-04, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Beguiler//Factotum 7 feat choice
Note that Vow of Non-Violence prevents you from doing anything that will assist in violence. So you can't Glitterdust most enemies (the vow excludes undead and whatnot) if your friends are going to kill them, though you could Glitterdust them if your friends are going to subdue them. But then you have to deal with keeping prisoners, treating them humanely, etc.
Beguiler//Factotum is a pretty lousy gestalt choice, in that they have overlapping Skills, BAB, and abilities. You might want to consider changing one side or the other.
But assuming you do stick with your class choice, here are some feat options:
- Arcane Strike: Burn arcane spells to gain an untyped bonus to hit and damage. Complete Warrior pg 96.
- Combat Acrobat: If you make a DC 20 Balance check to negate being knocked Prone, and/or a DC 15 check to ignore up to 4 squares of difficult terrain. PHBII pg 76.
- Shape Soulmeld + Open Least Chakra for Impulse Boots: Grants Uncanny Dodge and Evasion. You need to be an Incarnum race or spend a third feat to get a point of essentia. Magic of Incarnum.
- Divine Defiance: Burn a turn/rebuke undead use to counter a spell as an Immediate Action. You must still have Dispel Magic or the same spell available though. There are a ton of awesome Domain and Divine feats (Travel Devotion, Persistent Refusal, etc) you might want to consider, but you probably don't have the Wis (determines Opportunistic Piety) to support more then one, and this is my favorite. Fiendish Codex II, pg 83.
- Extraordinary Concentration: You may maintain Concentration on a spell as a Move Action (DC 25 + spell level). If you beat the DC by 10 or more, you can maintain concentration as a Swift Action. If you fail your check, you lose concentration. Spells that require Concentration are balanced to basically prevent you from taking other actions while they're in effect. This feat breaks that, giving you an action advantage. CAdv p109
- Fearless Destiny: Once per day when you are reduced to -10 or fewer hit points, you are instead reduced to -9 and stable. A lot cheaper then resurrection. Races of Destiny pg 152.
- Mobile Spellcasting: If a spell is a Standard Action, you can make a Concentration check to move as part of the same action. Yet another action advantage. Comp Adventurer pg 111.
- Obtain Familiar: Familiars act on your turn (essentially giving you a second character), can Share Spells (buffs) and deliver Touch Attack spells (essentially letting you cast 2 spells the first round of combat, as long as you give your familiar the spell to hold before combat starts). Complete Arcane pg 81.
- Winged Warrior: As a Move Action you can create a hemisphere of concealment (for those in the cloud) and total concealment (for those trying to look into the cloud) around you. Cast a Standard Action spell, use Mobile Spellcasting to move away from your enemies, and then use your Move Action to activate this feat and prevent counter attack.
- Races of the Wild pg 153.
At higher levels you're also going to want to start abusing metamagic. But at level 7 there's not many good options.
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2010-05-04, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Beguiler//Factotum 7 feat choice
No, it doesn't. Vow of Nonviolence requires that you:
- not cause harm or suffering to humanoids or monstrous humanoids
- not deal damage or ability damage to humanoids or monstrous humanoids
- not target humanoids or monstrous humanoids with death effects, pain effects, or other spells which cause death, suffering, or great harm
Your DM might rule that Glitterdust has the potential to cause death or suffering indirectly, since your ally with a sword would love to skewer a blinded foe, but that's pretty obviously not what the feat actually restricts. Vow of Nonviolence also doesn't place any restrictions on the actions of your allies except when killing helpless foes is involved, and even then they just suffer a penalty to attacks for a bit. You don't lose your Vow if an ally kills a helpless foe, either, although knowingly allowing them to do it will result in losing the feat.
Even Vow of Peace, which is more restrictive, doesn't prevent you from causing status effects to enemies; the only stipulation is that you can't incapacitate your foes to be killed by your allies, so if you blind them with Glitterdust, you need to knock them out and take them prisoner.SpoilerOriginally Posted by JaronKOriginally Posted by TyndmyrOriginally Posted by Zaq
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2010-05-04, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Beguiler//Factotum 7 feat choice
They synergize nicely in being both INT, one granting a limited spell list but lots of spells while the other offers any spell ever, but only a handful per day. The Beguiler's abilities all help with casting spells, while the factotum's abilities all help with skills.
Also, beguiler is 1/2 BAB, while factotum is 3/4ths.
Also, I'm purposefully trying to not outshine the rest of the party here.
Originally Posted by Person_ManLast edited by shadow_archmagi; 2010-05-04 at 06:14 PM.
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2010-05-04, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Beguiler//Factotum 7 feat choice
Mobile Spellcasting allows you to make a move action, then cast while making another move action. It's like using the hustle power without having to use up your swift action.
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2010-05-04, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Beguiler//Factotum 7 feat choice
Dip one level in a divine class and pick Practiced Spellcaster: Done. Also, Extraordinary Concentration works great as you don't want it to swift action; that's your second spell. You want it to take your move action. That's the awesome part in it.
Third Eye: Concentrate means you don't need custom items to pump Concentration either and you'll want Constitution-improving items anyways so the skill optimizes itself naturally... And you want it maxed for real anyways.Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
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2010-05-05, 05:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Beguiler//Factotum 7 feat choice
Why take a level in cleric? The feat grants +4 caster level; 0+4>3, so it works out.
Avatar by K penguin. Sash by Damned1rishman.
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2010-05-05, 05:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Beguiler//Factotum 7 feat choice
I thought it had a prereq of actually having a CL for it.
Originally Posted by Alabenson
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2010-05-05, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Beguiler//Factotum 7 feat choice
You could play an Archivist//Factotum. The Archivist has Int based divine casting, and has access to pretty much every spell the Beguiler can cast plus every other divine spell (including Cleric, Druid, Ranger, Blackguard, Paladin, every domain spell, every divine PrC spell, etc). That would let you take Divine Defiance, and you could fulfill pretty much any role you wanted. If you're worried about overshadowing your friends, you can just choose weaker spells, but you'll always have the option of being more powerful when you need to be.
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2010-05-05, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Beguiler//Factotum 7 feat choice
Avatar by K penguin. Sash by Damned1rishman.
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