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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Warrior Cleric's

    In a current Pathfinder Campaign my friend is running, I have a Fighter/Cleric build that so far has been working out rather well. I am just curious if there have been any prestige class's that could help out with this build, continuing on the lines of a war-priest. I know such a class existed in the 3.5 rules, but I have yet to find one for pathfinder. Any other helpful suggestions would be nice, as I am always looking for advice.

    Character: William Adel
    NG
    Half-elf
    Fighter 3/Cleric 5
    Str:18 Dex:16 Con:17 Int:14 Wis:18 Cha:16
    Feats:
    Duel-wielding
    Two-weapon defense
    Double Slice
    Power Attack
    Dodge
    Leadership
    Domains:Good/Protection

    The plan for the build was not the standard healing Priest, but a buffer, mainly in defense and offense. He still retains good healing ability's with channel energy and spontaneous casting, but prefers to focus on spells such as Bull's Strength and Holy Shield. I don't plan to take any more level's in fighter so that in the end I can still have access to level 9 spells. I feel this may seem as a rather unorthodox character, but so far he has been kicking some serious ars.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    Generally, straight Cleric is the best warrior priest. Not that you'd be healing even if you weren't. But...yeah. PF rules don't contain a worthwhile warrior cleric PrC; Warpriest isn't there and even if it were, it wouldn't really be worth it (you lose out on 5 levels of spellcasting for few abilities you could replicate with spells). Now, Ordained Champion [Complete Champion] or Ruby Knight Vindicator [Tome of Battle] would be worth it, but neither has a Pathfinder conversion, though as 3.5 compatible, you could just use them as is in Pathfinder. Thing is though, both lose more spellcasting levels.

    All in all, you're best off just taking more levels of Cleric. Eventually Quickened buff spells with immense caster level to get all out of them leads to major profit. And yeah, sounds you're doing it right even without full Cleric-casting; you definitely want to mostly be buffing. Though there's one case of healing where it's worth it: Once you gain access to the "Heal"-spell. It generally heals enough that it undoes many turns of actions from opponents, and removes all sorts of bothersome conditions while at it.


    It's worth noting that Clerics are very good two-handers with Power Attack, but that again is something you cannot change, I think. Animated Shields (which you can just Craft yourself) make Two-Weapon Defense feats kind of mediocre.

    If I were building a Warrior Cleric with those stats, I would go:
    Human Cleric 8 (same stat distribution)
    1. Power Attack, Extend Spell
    3. Craft Wondrous Items
    5. Craft Magic Arms & Armor
    7. Leadership
    (9. Combat Reflexes
    11. Quicken Spell
    13. Stand Still
    15. Craft Rods
    17. Spell Penetration
    19. Greater Spell Penetration)

    Honestly, with Pathfinder rate of feat acquisition and lack of splatbook feats (thus lack of worthwhile feats to take), Fighter levels don't really give the build anything. And since Spiked Chain got nerfed, you'll do just as well with a Simple weapon. Longspear is excellent, for example, and Spear is fairly solid too. Guisarme would be great, except that since Tripping got nerfed, it's kinda meh too.

    The advantage of going two-handed is that you don't need Double Slice; you deal an equivalent amount of damage with a single attack normally. That and the fact that you can threaten reach which goes perfectly with Cleric spells that increase size (Enlarge Person from domain, Righteous Might, etc.) and so on.

    Travel, Luck and Trickery are probably still the most worthwhile Domains. Strength has Enlarge Person and some nice abilities (but it appears the level 8 one doesn't apply to Combat Maneuvers with Strength making it rather mediocre), and War has some uses. Travel + Strength would be a great combination, for example; Travel's teleportation is absolute gold. Quicken Teleport, full attack.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-05-05 at 04:28 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Animated Shields (which you can just Craft yourself) make Two-Weapon Defense feats kind of mediocre.
    PF animated shields aren't that hot. (They got limited duration they can remain floating alone.)
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    Ordained Champion is my favorite warrior cleric PrC, but yeah, you can get into it without ever touching Fighter, and it involves caster level loss.


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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    Quote Originally Posted by AslanCross View Post
    Ordained Champion is my favorite warrior cleric PrC, but yeah, you can get into it without ever touching Fighter, and it involves caster level loss.
    Totally worth it though. It is worth noting that it requires one of two deities (Hextor or Heironeous), which is aggravating, since it also fits for St. Cuthbert.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Ravens_cry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    The Pathfinder Campaign Setting Guide has a alternate cleric that gets full BAB, heavy armour, but loses domains.
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    Greenish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    Totally worth it though.
    Not an option, since he wants 9th level spells and has already lost three caster levels. Otherwise, I concur. Oh, and not an option in PF if they don't import stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    It is worth noting that it requires one of two deities (Hextor or Heironeous), which is aggravating, since it also fits for St. Cuthbert.
    It's not hard to adapt, but yeah, if you play Greyhawk it's a bit annoying. Hextor/Heironeous is a cool god though.
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Not an option, since he wants 9th level spells and has already lost three caster levels. Otherwise, I concur. Oh, and not an option in PF if they don't import stuff.It's not hard to adapt, but yeah, if you play Greyhawk it's a bit annoying. Hextor/Heironeous is a cool god though.
    See, I like the LN Hextor (security through power, authority is all), but Heironeous is far too goody-goody and LE Hextor gets you smacked by DMs in many cases. I'm weird though.

    As for you, OP, I'd go with what Ravens_cry suggested: the alternate Cleric that has full BAB and heavy armor, but no domains. Seems ideal for your needs.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    Heironeous is far too goody-goody and LE Hextor gets you smacked by DMs in many cases. I'm weird though.
    Heh, I always think of them as being different aspects of the same god.

    Please don't burn me.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Heh, I always think of them as being different aspects of the same god.

    Please don't burn me.
    *twitchtwitch* The urge to light you on fire, it is strong.

    Anyways, OP, if you want a warrior-cleric, I do wonder why you didn't just go Paladin? They're much better in Pathfinder, pretty playable even.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Ravens_cry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    *twitchtwitch* The urge to light you on fire, it is strong.

    Anyways, OP, if you want a warrior-cleric, I do wonder why you didn't just go Paladin? They're much better in Pathfinder, pretty playable even.
    Paladin are indeed a lot of fun in Pathfinder. I have one at 13th level that I've played since level 1, and I never felt useless. However, they still have the Lawful Good alignment restriction, and the code, which I don't think would jive with the OP's Neutral Good planned alignment. Plus, the OP wants ninth level spells.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2010-05-05 at 04:43 PM.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    Totally worth it though. It is worth noting that it requires one of two deities (Hextor or Heironeous), which is aggravating, since it also fits for St. Cuthbert.
    In a setting where neither exists, I always just say "they work for any deity whose agenda involves sending people to war."

    In Eberron, for example, I ruled the following can have OCs:

    -Dol Arrah
    -Dol Dorn
    -Dol Azur/The Mockery
    -The Silver Flame
    -The Lord of Blades (He has clerics, so...)
    -Bahamut
    -Tiamat


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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    *twitchtwitch* The urge to light you on fire, it is strong.

    Anyways, OP, if you want a warrior-cleric, I do wonder why you didn't just go Paladin? They're much better in Pathfinder, pretty playable even.
    Some of us do prefer playing Warrior Clerics to Paladins even within Pathfinder Besides, you still get all the high-level spellcasting good stuff like Holy Words and Miracles and Teleports and Dimension Doors and such. Which is why I don't like the ACF that gives up Domains; losing access to teleportation is frowntown worthy (by far the best way to do a full attack every round).
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    The reason for not playing a paladin involve a lot of references, and puns. Too often in my gaming circle do we make fun of the paladin's codes and philosophy, to the point where only one of us every plays the class (And only that class it seems). I personally like the moral flexibility of not being a paladin, and in this particular campaign, paladin's border on the Knight's Templar trope. Hell, the one in the party is rather closed mouth about everything and has a strong believe that his way is the best simply because its his. It doesn't help that his god has the same personality. William gets along best with the Warmage, and even that's a stretch.

    As for duel wielding instead of two-handers, it was really an experiment just to see how it would work. I am not looking to munchkin characters often if at all. He did just disarm the big-bad's second in command by sundering his bastard Sword. It was a rather epic moment when the DM looked at the character only to realize 1) he had no other weapon 2) He did not have Unarmed Prof.

    The levels in Fighter served three purposes.
    1) Higher attack bonus (A weak excuse but hey, it works)
    2) Bonus feats
    3) Armor training (I get to run around in med armor or Mithril Heavy with no speed reduction? Huzzah!)
    The last one is a big huzzah due to we have found over our many games that lack of movement gets you killed pretty quick against what we tend to throw up at each other.

    Lastly, if on a unrelated note, I have a puzzle for ye who read this.
    A coup-de-grace was performed upon someone who was under the effect of William's Shield Other spell. The effect was a neck-snap, but we were not sure of the effects the spell would have upon the poor half-elf. (The someone in question failed the fortitude save and died anyways.)

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    Greenish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warrior Cleric's

    Quote Originally Posted by Dashaderic View Post
    Lastly, if on a unrelated note, I have a puzzle for ye who read this.
    A coup-de-grace was performed upon someone who was under the effect of William's Shield Other spell. The effect was a neck-snap, but we were not sure of the effects the spell would have upon the poor half-elf. (The someone in question failed the fortitude save and died anyways.)
    The caster of Shield Other would take half of the damage caused by the coup de grāce. The caster doesn't have to make the fort save from coup de grāce.
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