High powered Gestalt build

[Vallum]

Hello Gitp! Its Vallum again, with the awesome circumstance of me running my campaign of high power pathfinder/3.5-to-3.0, (pathfinder overrules 3.5 rules if it has a rule/rules to cover subject unless by my say so, e.g. power attack like 3.5, put in concentration, est) gestalt, also everything is allowed... and creating the awesome NPCs to help or challenge my PC's

Let me make this clear

the-gloves-are-off
this is over powered
in no way am I looking for balance
as this campaign, in my perspective, is to teach my players how to optimize and how to deal with other OP builds


So, after the PC's get past my dungeon and a few more encounter, I will plan to have them meet a group of barbarian white tiger beastfolk, each specialized in a certain form of combat that will face the PC's in 1-on-1 battles

So far, I have a classic Frenzied Berserker Charger and Warchief of the tribe [Fighter 6/Frenzied Berserker 5// Barbarian 11], a strange monk fighter of the drunken master fighting style (frozen dragon uppercut is his key move) [monk 11 variant from here//fighter 5/drunken master 6 from same site, link here], and an Anti-Mage tripper [Fighter 6/ Occult slayer 5//Crusader 6/fighter 5]

Now, the unwilling betrayer of the group, a Bloodstorm blade tossing around a anime-esc adamantine greataxe...

Problem is, I can't think for the life of me what I should have for the other half of the build... And feat advice would be most reassuring.

the first and main half is warblade 5/bladestrom blade 6, (the favor and features are perfect for what I what in this character)
now, about the race itself, found here, is the big cat beastfolk, under tiger, so, +2 STR and CON, -2 INT, +1 to damage for ever 4 HD the character has, and all big cat beatfolk have pounce as a racial ability

Stat(don't be shocked, actually balanced verses what I gave the PC's and what they are coming up with for their builds)
STR 28 +9
DEX 16 +3
CON 22 +6
INT 14 +2
WIS 14 +2
CHA 14 +2

Not only is this character being made to counter the fighter//rogue archer, (via, f*** arrows, I have a f***ing giant axe!), but will become one of the main 'generals' that will be of the final confrontations for the PC's, via epic levels, (mainly to challenge the rogue to start thinking like a smart combatant will)

So this guy, I'm wishing to do one thing and one thing well: smashing. face. very. hard.

Anymore information you will like, just ask, for I am now at your mercy

[Pluto]

the-gloves-are-off
this is over powered
in no way am I looking for balance
as this campaign, in my perspective, is to teach my players how to optimize and how to deal with other OP builds

But you have no spellcasters? Or psions? Or factotums?

If this is a large race, Knockback (RoS)+Dungeoncrasher (Dung) is hilarious. And Fighter levels can help cover up for a weak Will Save via Resolute (CChamp).

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Race half-minotaur Goliath
Swordsage x / Dungeoncrasher Fighter 2 // Barbarian / Frenzied Berserker charging build

You can work out the feats. All you need is flight and speed. Take the Lion totem variant for hilarious charging cow with pounce. Damage could exceed the 1000 range / rd. easily, with a STR like that. Possibly up in the 70's with buffs and etc.

I say swordsage for the saves and Setting Sun / Stone Dragon maneuvers. how about Tornado Throw from this guy? Literally could be throwing mooks off cliffs. Awesome.

[dspeyer]

the first and main half is warblade 5/bladestrom blade 6, (the favor and features are perfect for what I what in this character)

One nifty thing for an other side would be War Hulk. With STR bonuses instead of BAB, it's great for gestalt.

A generally handy thing is rogue. Everybody loves skills. ISTR there are good skill tricks for thrown weapons too. If sneak attack looks useless, take fighter feats instead.

Probably the most powerful thing would be a self-buff focused caster. Psion(egoist), psychic warrior, cleric and sorcerer with lots of swift spells are all viable.

[Greenish]

the-gloves-are-off
this is over powered
in no way am I looking for balance
as this campaign, in my perspective, is to teach my players how to optimize and how to deal with other OP builds

You might start with non-gestalt, they'll have enough to swallow if they've never optimized and now you dump this on them.

Also, in before wizard/20.

[Vallum]

One nifty thing for an other side would be War Hulk. With STR bonuses instead of BAB, it's great for gestalt.

A generally handy thing is rogue. Everybody loves skills. ISTR there are good skill tricks for thrown weapons too. If sneak attack looks useless, take fighter feats instead.

Probably the most powerful thing would be a self-buff focused caster. Psion(egoist), psychic warrior, cleric and sorcerer with lots of swift spells are all viable.

But you have no spellcasters? Or psions? Or factotums?

If this is a large race, Knockback (RoS)+Dungeoncrasher (Dung) is hilarious. And Fighter levels can help cover up for a weak Will Save via Resolute (CChamp).

Didn't say what the party is made up of, or what they'll encounter outside of the barren frozen north full of barbarians. If I were to include full casters, it'll have to make sense.

But trust me, when It's plausible to have them, I'll have them. The main villain is a wizard 30//psion 30

So, for the thrower, he originally had scout levels and was going to be more mobile.... But I'm going to save that for more dexterous characters, utilizing allot of multiple, small weapons to proc sudden strike/sneak attack/skirmish

You might start with non-gestalt, they'll have enough to swallow if they've never optimized and now you dump this on them.

Also, in before wizard/20.

I did. I changed the campaign to gestalt to give them a bit of a crutch. First encounter was a total party wipe out, and other groups I ran it with was a cake walk.

[Vallum]

Oh, and with the war hulk idea.... Hehehehe, going to be saving that for a heartless giant I'm going to power up

Also.... Would... Anyone want to see a more detailed explanation of my campaign and world? Was thinking of putting it up here, but I'm not sure if people would be interested in a world modeled and inspired by a challenge from my sister to make a campaign of the late 70's movie movieThe Flight with Dragons and the book The Dragon and the George, (the movie was modeled after the book mentioned here)...

[Obi-Juan]

I suggest the combo of:

Race: Half-Dragon (Red) Wyrm of War Troll
Class: Lion Totem Barbarian 6/Frenzied Berserker 6/Dungeoncrasher Fighter 4/War Hulk 4//Totemist 10/Half-Dragon Paragon 3/Totem Rager 7
Items: x3 +10 Spiked Warclub (Enchant as you wish), Amulet of Immunity (Acid)

Teach them with this juggernaut. He cannot be hurt by Fire and Acid, take feats to upgrade his Fast Healing to that of the Tarrasque, and leap in and smash them all like insects...

[aivanther]

Single class vs their gestalt: Druid/planar shepherd (far realms)

If you have to gestalt, and don't want far realms timelessness cheese:

druid/planar shepherd (whatever 10 to 1 time is)//psychic warrior

[Vallum]

I suggest the combo of:

Race: Half-Dragon (Red) Wyrm of War Troll
Class: Lion Totem Barbarian 6/Frenzied Berserker 6/Dungeoncrasher Fighter 4/War Hulk 4//Totemist 10/Half-Dragon Paragon 3/Totem Rager 7
Items: x3 +10 Spiked Warclub (Enchant as you wish), Amulet of Immunity (Acid)

Teach them with this juggernaut. He cannot be hurt by Fire and Acid, take feats to upgrade his Fast Healing to that of the Tarrasque, and leap in and smash them all like insects...

21th ECL for the halfdragon wartroll, (according to its 12HD, +6 LA, and +3 for halfdragon)
Unless you're talking about another kind of half-dragon wartroll, I wont even be able to use him alone for a while, let alone with all those levels....
But by the gods, the image of this monster is amazing Jaun! Defiantly going to be incorporating the idea of the giant they'll encounter in

[gallagher]

a fun idea for me would be a half minotaur water orc psychic warrior//monk

ideally, you buff yourself so you are a competent melee character (something that being a monk sorely misses), and then since you are large sized already, you can psionic expand to gargantuan. your flurry of blows will be hilariously awesome, or you can make your monk be the decisive strike blend, and do double damage for a round.

being the mantled ACF for psychic warrior will allow you to get metamorphosis, which gives you the awesome power of becoming a bear (or a dinosaur, but some people have no sense of style these days)

have him followed by a rogue, cleric, or wizard who can give him true strike, or take the feats to give him deep impact so he can attack their touch AC (a belt of battle or taking hustle as one of your powers will make this more feasible) and he becomes the tank of the century.

or just send him up against shneeky's CW samurai

[PhoenixRivers]

Hello Gitp! Its Vallum again, with the awesome circumstance of me running my campaign of high power pathfinder/3.5-to-3.0, (pathfinder overrules 3.5 rules if it has a rule/rules to cover subject unless by my say so, e.g. power attack like 3.5, put in concentration, est) gestalt, also everything is allowed... and creating the awesome NPCs to help or challenge my PC's

Let me make this clear

the-gloves-are-off
this is over powered
in no way am I looking for balance
as this campaign, in my perspective, is to teach my players how to optimize and how to deal with other OP builds


So, after the PC's get past my dungeon and a few more encounter, I will plan to have them meet a group of barbarian white tiger beastfolk, each specialized in a certain form of combat that will face the PC's in 1-on-1 battles

So far, I have a classic Frenzied Berserker Charger and Warchief of the tribe [Fighter 6/Frenzied Berserker 5// Barbarian 11], a strange monk fighter of the drunken master fighting style (frozen dragon uppercut is his key move) [monk 11 variant from here//fighter 5/drunken master 6 from same site, link here], and an Anti-Mage tripper [Fighter 6/ Occult slayer 5//Crusader 6/fighter 5]

Now, the unwilling betrayer of the group, a Bloodstorm blade tossing around a anime-esc adamantine greataxe...

Problem is, I can't think for the life of me what I should have for the other half of the build... And feat advice would be most reassuring.

the first and main half is warblade 5/bladestrom blade 6, (the favor and features are perfect for what I what in this character)
now, about the race itself, found here, is the big cat beastfolk, under tiger, so, +2 STR and CON, -2 INT, +1 to damage for ever 4 HD the character has, and all big cat beatfolk have pounce as a racial ability

Stat(don't be shocked, actually balanced verses what I gave the PC's and what they are coming up with for their builds)
STR 28 +9
DEX 16 +3
CON 22 +6
INT 14 +2
WIS 14 +2
CHA 14 +2

Not only is this character being made to counter the fighter//rogue archer, (via, f*** arrows, I have a f***ing giant axe!), but will become one of the main 'generals' that will be of the final confrontations for the PC's, via epic levels, (mainly to challenge the rogue to start thinking like a smart combatant will)

So this guy, I'm wishing to do one thing and one thing well: smashing. face. very. hard.

Anymore information you will like, just ask, for I am now at your mercy

War hulk is good in gestalt. no BAB progression, but +2 Str every level. Good for hulking hurler gestalts, bloodstorm blade gestalts, and bloodstorm blade hulking hurler gestalts.

[Greenish]

a fun idea for me would be a half minotaur water orc psychic warrior//monk

I'd put monk/psywarr with Tashatalora on the other side, and then something nasty with full BAB on the other.

or just send him up against shneeky's CW samurai

Short and messy introduction to optimizing: samurai comes, stares you down, you wet yourself, the samurai kills you.

[Vallum]

I'd put monk/psywarr with Tashatalora on the one side, and then something nasty with full BAB on the other.
Short and messy introduction to optimizing: samurai comes, stares you down, you wet yourself, the samurai kills you.

fix'd and lol
I <3 ki shout

[Icewraith]

Gestalt Giants of your flavor with fighter, barbarian or both, with the racial HD on the other side. If your Giants need more class levels than they have HD, give them levels in cleric on the HD side.

Also, throw in a Giant with levels of Bard or Dragon Shaman to buff the others on top of divine power and righteous might, at sufficiently high levels.

For example, a Frost Giant Lion Totem Barb 1-3/Fighter or Warblade X//HD/psion, Cleric, or Psywar can get pretty ridiculous pretty quick. And you can have a whole village full of them!

Succubus pairs nicely with Sorcerer or Wilder for very high save dcs. Succubus+sorc+I7V or ICX is ridiculous.

Gestalt Construct HD with Rogue levels and have 2 Iron Golems flank your party members and sneak attack them. Give them Martial Stance and Martial Study so they can pick up Shadow Hand's Island of Blades, flanking opponents they are adjacent to. Sure they don't get iterative attacks, but all of a sudden those Slams hurt a lot more!

(Constructs are a special case. You'll have to decide if they can make use of any feats they might get from fighter levels, for example, otherwise this doesn't work. OTOH you can have whirlwind-attacking spiked-chain wielding flesh golems or similar decimate your party! Such fun!)

Also, adding the ghost template to any spellcaster always makes it nastier. For a variation, give the ghost flyby attack, access to Mithral Tornado or Adamantine Hurricane, and profit. Later also try it with Gestalted Morghs!

Note that one thing that will drastically up the CR of any dragon is giving it Wizard levels equal to its HD, apply a laevel adjustment to the other side of opponents with significantly more HD than CR so they don't just nuke the party down.

Finally, if anything goes, and everything is allowed, do your players know about pun-pun? Otherwise the campaign could end up being shorter than you want it to be.

For low level opponents, oodles and oodles of goblin or Kobold Fighter//Scouts can be a real nuisance for any party.

[term1nally s1ck]

So, you have a Warblade/Bloodstorm blade chucking melee attacks at people...

Take RHD, Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6 on the other side, then Psychic Warrior, for Expansion. You should have something like a half-ogre goliath as the race, for powerful build AND a size increase, and a pile of strength.

That will give you a Huge character that is treated as Gargantuan when that would be good, like on say a bull-rush check or a trip check...

Take Improved Trip, Knockback, and Shock Trooper for your feats, and play bowling with your players as the pins, knocking them into each other, getting an extra trip attempt on each, and then a free attack on each one you trip, which bull-rushes them further while they're prone, preferably into a wall now, to do the extra damage.

Worst case? You hit most of them multiple times, and knocked them prone and away from you, making it impossible for them to hit you next turn, unless they're ranged too.

[Seffbasilisk]

Heartseeking Amulet. Bloodstorm Blade makes ranged attacks as melee IIRC, so make 3 of those touch attacks.

Pick up deflect arrows, or Bands of the Iron Monkey (sp?) which adds to initiative, and gives you the beforementioned feat. Couple that with gloves of Arrow Reflection, or add that onto the already existing gauntlets to reflect the arrows BACK at the damn archer (only if he manages to hit, which should hit his AC as well.)

As DM, do you accept Brutal Throw and Power Throw working with Bloodstorm Blade's thrown weapons?

[The Glyphstone]

More hilarious - Pixie Psychic Warriors with Major Titan Bloodlines. With Compression, they shrink down to Fine size, but can still wield Gargantuan warhammers unpenalized. Find some way to get them +5ft. melee reach (Bracers of Reach from MIC?) and you can basically have "animated warhammers" attacking your party.

[Caliphbubba]

I'm just here to say that I loved loved loved Flight of Dragons as a kid. I would certainly read about your world if you posted it up.

[The Glyphstone]

Forgive me, but the Halfling to me is funnier, since it's Cloud/Sephiroth from FFVII

Except out of what you listed for size increasers...Jotunbrud is a Human feat only and Wield Oversized Weapon is Epic. Monkey Grip is the only size increase you can get, and it's replicated by Strongarm Bracers...your halfling barbarian can only wield a Medium greatsword, not a Huge or Gargantuan one.

Cloud/Sephiroth has been done a million times, but if you want to do it again, you use a Human with Strongarm Bracers carrying a Large Fullblade.

[Vallum]

Wow, missed allot! Sorry about the extended absence, was battling against mono for a few weeks and didn't do much from sleeping and taking medicine

So, I wanted to thank everyone thus far for all the awesome tips and advice. HUGE thank you to Icewraith for the needed build optimizing for my giants and the unexpected pitch of constructs, (was going to need it eventually). I love all the melee advice given here for OP gestalt builds.

Caliphbubba, and to anyone else who cares, I WILL be making an extensive thread specifically about my campaign and posting notes and journal-esc entries and DM notes about the campaign... Who knows where this will go, but I do know I put allot of time and effort into creating so much, and would love to here even a smidgen of praise

Now for some fun, I'll be posting a new build I came up with for one of the famed generals of my campaign and my next character I'll be working on, without magic items (for now)

*exchanged for paladin of 11 levels, via guidelines of blackguard in DMG 3.5
**Pathfinder/3.5/3.0

General Morgan
ClassACF Paladin [fallen]1/Blackguard 10*/Fighter 9//Fighter 11/ Disciple of Disputer 9
Level 20
Race Half-Orc
Stats
{table]Str|22|6
Dex|20|5
Con|20|5
Int|14|2
Wis|14|2
Cha|30|10[/table]
Base Attack Bonus +20/+15/+10/+5
Saves F 26 (4 base stat + 7 class + 5 Prestige class + 10 divine grace/black guard equivalent), R 21 (3 s + 3 c + 5 p + 10 d), W 20 (2 s + 3 c + 5 p + 10 d)

Class features

- ACF Zhentarim Soldier
* gain: Bonus feat [Skill focus: Intimidation], Extended intimidation, Swift demoralization

- Fighter: Bonus feats [6 total], Armor training 4, Weapon training 4, (Heavy Blades, Thrown, Axes, Bows), bravery +5(+5 to will/fear), Armor mastery (gains DR 5/- whenever he is wearing armor or using a shield), Weapon Mastery [greatsword](Any attacks made with a greatsword automatically confirm all critical threats and have their damage multiplier
increased by 1. Cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon of this type)

- Paladin: none, due to Ex-Paladin

-Blackguard: Aura of evil, detect good, poison use, Dark blessing, Command undead, aura of despair, Fiendish servant, Sneak attack +3d6, smite good 3/day
* For trading paladin levels, ala fallen paladin...
% Lay on hands, Sneak attack damage increased by +1d6(total of 4d6), Fiendish summoning. 1/day, Summon monster 1 evil creature (2x black guard = CL), Undead companion (a Medium-size skeleton or zombie as a companion. cannot be turned or rebuked and gains all special bonuses as a fiendish servant), Smite good 3/day.

- Diciple of Disputer: Device lore, Greater Iron hews, Rusting grasp, iron power +2, summon eriyes, iron skin

Feats
[F=fighter feat, lvl = level gained]
1 lvl Combat expertise
1 F Power attack
2 F cleave
3 lvl Improved sunder
3 F Skill focus (Intimidation)
4 F Weapon focus (Greatsword)
5 lvl Persuasive
6 F Improved Initiative
7 lvl Quickdraw
8 F Improved Critical (greatsword)
9 lvl Disciple of Darkness
10 F Dazzling Display
11 lvl Greater Weapon Focus (greatsword)
12 F Weapon Specialization (greatsword)
13 lvl Shattered Defenses
14 F Greater Weapon Specialization (greatsword)
15 lvl Menacing Demeanor
16 F Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing)
17 lvl Skill Focus (Iaijutsu Focus)
18 F Slashing Flurry
19 lvl Intimidating Prowess
20 F Weapon Supremacy (greatsword)

Main Skills
Intimidation: 55
+20 Ranks
+6 Strength [Intimidating Prowess]
+10 Charisma
+3 Trained**
+6 Skill Focus (Intimidation)
+4 Menacing Demeanor
+4 Persuasive
+2 Race

Iaijutsu Focus: 39
+20 ranks
+ 10 Charisma
+ 3 trained
+ 6 Skill Focus

Diplomacy = 27
Swim = 19
Acrobatics = 16
Perception = 15
Climb = 14
Stealth, Ride = 11
Knowledge (religion) = 10

What this class does and how it gets it done
This guy is scary. Literally.
With the pathfinder rules, AFC from Zhentarim, sky high intimidate, and the dazzling display feat chain, he makes all enemies within 30ft of him flat footed and cowering in a swift action, and are shaken for one round thereafter. This can be used every round if need be

add the Blackguard sneak attack, (4d6) and the Iaijutsu Focus (roll a 1, I add 7d6, a 11 or move gives me 9d6)

in addition to his amazing crit range, multiplier, and auto-confirm due to fighter 20 and Disciple of Disputer (15-20, x3), he'll also be crit'ing allot and hard (keen can stack with the disciple's class feature). so, an attack that hits, (pretty hard not to, –4 penalty to Armor Class and loses his Dexterity bonus, -4 skill checks, no AoO's, AND is flat footed (redundant, but still...), almost helpless), he deals

2d6 (weapons) + 4d6 SA + 7/8/9d6 + 9 Str + 4 class (fighter)+ 2 class(disciple) + 6 feats + 30 full power attack = 100 on average on one attack, can add another from slashing flurry, (e.g. if AoO, can make two attack instead of one, charge, est.). If full attack, then x 5 (5 attack, 4 from full attack + 1 from slashing flurry), on average then, is 500/500/465/425/390 (total 2280) damage. All not including crits, (Don't know how to calculate crits into an average, haven't posted builds before ).

What makes this so awesome is not just the easy hitting and respectable damage, but the control of having your opponents just sitting like retarded turkeys in the rain until you come along and cut them up for thanksgiving

(((now, if fear effects stacked into something more potent like prone... Well, thats just cheap. I have to say though, this idea in general was baised off of seeing shneaky's samurai battle a while back)))

comments/remarks?

[Vallum]

I'm making a double post for the sake of not wanting to cram up my previous post.

I am now looking for a good gestalt necromancer builds for up coming villans...

What I need at least are 2 listed below, but more on top of them are more then welcome

a necromancy who has a small, elite force of undead, (was thinking dread necro to tank with the rest of his undead and cleric, but I'm unsure)

and a necromancer with an army (uttercold wizard perhaps?)

[Vallum]

Hm... It seems no one could answer me. Pity... But, I figured them out, (fairly straight forward though... very spruce of multiclassing or prestige classes, Will post them if asked in the above post of mine)

So, After that though, I've been focusing heavily on psionics. I've learned allot, like how to use wilder's properly and how they're great for psi-gish builds, supplements any sort of melee build I've been making as of late.

Now I'm looking at the caster side of psions, and I've been wanting to make a blaster-focused build (revolving around energy blasts, bursts, bolts, est. Being gestalt builds, I was thinking of mixing), and something focused on astral constructs/psicrystal fighting, (like a summoning divine/arcane build, but with summoning and creating astral constructs, with my psicrystal as my lil' back-up tank). The later one is more of the issue though, because I'm unsure how to set up the build itself about how it can accomplish as such, (prestige classes specifically, but anything on improving the constructs would be nice would be nice, all I have so far is ectopic adept and the ectopic form feats, but I'm wondering if their is anything else left...). The blaster build is probably just wilder//psion with Elocater in the mix for options, takings allot of metapsionic feats to augment my blasts, ( Split or chain the energy ray? it feels like optimizing enervation for a wizards ), I'll post the blaster build later, (Rorouni Kenshin is very distracting )