Re-useable Stone Guardians (3.5)

[Vorpalbob]

While reading the Most Memorable Player Deaths thread, I saw the someone had mentioned a character who had been turned to stone, and was placed in the town square, with a plaque that read "The hero will return in a time of great need". A time of great need being when someone casts Stone to Flesh on him.

Would that work? Lets have a hypothetical.

Townsville is a quaint little settlement on the plains. About 500 people live there, and thick wooden walls protect them from orc invaders. The people of Townsville are happy and peaceful, and the only weapons are bows and knives for hunting and scythes for farming.

An orc war band is seen on the horizon, and is marching towards Townsville. The people run in from the fields, and convene in the town hall. They vote to activate the guardians to drive off the orcs. The town wizard and his apprentices, armed with scrolls and wands of Stone to Flesh, descend into the cellar, and unlock the heavy iron door.

Within this room is a column of statues, ten across and five deep. These are great warriors who made the sacrifice of losing their normal lives on earth so that they could forever be ready to protect Townsville. The wizard and his apprentices walk among the statues, casting their spells one by one. One by one, armed with spears, swords and axes, the awakened men climb the stairs to the cheers of the townsfolk. They form up at the gates, hearing the jeering of the orcs outside. They ready their weapons, let out a cry, and charge through the opening gates.

The battle lasts for several minutes, with many orcs and a few guardians falling. The leader of the orcs, a chieftain of almost 55 years of age, steps up to the line and comes face to face with an enemy. He is stunned. He looks closer. He stands across from the same young human that he nearly killed almost 30 years ago, when he fought beside the then-chieftain, his father. Since then, the orc had begun to age, and his body was beginning to decline. This human looked not a day older than he did thirty years previous. This surely must be that man's son, thought the chieftain.

Upon locking eyes with the massive orc, the human grins. "Gurtak! It's been a while. For you. I've been hoping we would meet again." He lunges forward, burying his spear into the orc's chest. Gurtak collapses, and as his eyes begin to cloud, he sees the human's arm. Clearly visible as a gray line, is a scar. A scar that matches perfectly the wound that Gurtak had caused the human all those years ago. Gurtak's mind begins to fade into eternity, and his last though is, "What is going on here?"

That evening, a feast is held for the guardians, their wounds are healed, and plans are made for a tournament to select replacements for the fallen men. After the festivities, the guardians don their armor, take up their weapons, and resume their places in the cellar. The wizard makes his rounds, returning the men to their slumber, ready for another battle.

[Adumbration]

Hmm. I see two minor problems with this.

1) They need to survive a DC 15 fortitude check each time they're revived. Given that they're high level, they should be able to make it in all but 1, but even this leads to uncomfortable rates of loss.

2) Scrolls of Stone to Flesh and Flesh to Stone are quite expensive.

The second can be mitigated with creating traps of both, but not sure about what to do about the first one.

[Volthawk]

Hmm. I see two minor problems with this.

1) They need to survive a DC 15 fortitude check each time they're revived. Given that they're high level, they should be able to make it in all but 1, but even this leads to uncomfortable rates of loss.

2) Scrolls of Stone to Flesh and Flesh to Stone are quite expensive.

The second can be mitigated with creating traps of both, but not sure about what to do about the first one.

Steadfast Determination, PHB2. You use Con for Will saves, and don't autofail on a nat 1.

[Reynard]

Steadfast Determination, PHB2. You use Con for Will saves, and don't autofail on a nat 1.

How does that help with fort saves?

[Volthawk]

How does that help with fort saves?

I was dealing with the "they should make it in all but 1" part.

[Nodwick22]

I think they mean they would all make the save except for a nat 1

[Volthawk]

I think they mean they would all make the save except for a nat 1

Which Steadfast Determination fixes. With that, you don't automatically fail on a natural 1.

[arguskos]

Volthawk didn't parse that correctly, thus the confusion. Steadfast Determination permits you to use Con on Will saves, AND to not fail Fort saves on a nat 1.

[Nodwick22]

ok that makes since then

[Volthawk]

Volthawk didn't parse that correctly, thus the confusion. Steadfast Determination permits you to use Con on Will saves, AND to not fail Fort saves on a nat 1.

Argh, typo. Thanks for saying it clearly.

[Irreverent Fool]

I believe there is a similar feat for Fort saves, as well as the Tome of Battle maneuver. I forget what it's called, but there's one for each save that replaces a save with a Concentration check, thereby making it not fail on a nat 1 (skill checks don't auto-fail and the book explicitly states this, iirc). (Diamond Mind school).

Furthermore, the ToB has guidelines for items that grant 1/day (or maybe it's 1/encounter) maneuvers, thereby potentially allowing these 'warriors of legend' to have access to it without even burning a feat.

In OP's example story, I am now getting flashbacks to Disney's Gargoyles.

They could also keep a scroll of revivify handy, though that would seem to be pushing the theoretical resources of a small town.

obnoxious
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[Vizzerdrix]

I like it. A very interesting idea indeed.

[Telonius]

As long as the warriors don't mind having lots of pigeon poop on them when they're revived, I don't see the problem.

[senrath]

How would the pigeons get into the locked basement?

[Volthawk]

How would the pigeons get into the locked basement?

Pigeons get everywhere.

[Telonius]

Ah, brain skipped over that bit and focused on the first example. Yeah, that would do it.

Though I wonder if the town would start running into some trouble with Inevitables if that keeps up.

[Fhaolan]

Pigeons get everywhere.

If there is a statue, there are pigeons. It doesn't matter if the statue is on top of a mountain in the deepest arctic, at the bottom of a well beneath a drow fortress, or submerged in a lake of liquid fire. It is inevitable. There will be pigeons.

[Volthawk]

If there is a statue, there are pigeons. It doesn't matter if the statue is on top of a mountain in the deepest arctic, at the bottom of a well beneath a drow fortress, or submerged in a lake of liquid fire. It is inevitable. There will be pigeons.

And not just normal pigeons. Giant Pigeons.

[Person_Man]

It's a good idea for a story - basically a riff on Gargoyles. But it doesn't make any sense from a 3.5 rules point of view. If you had two casters well supplied with scrolls, you wouldn't need other characters to defeat an army. Also, there are several Types that do not age. Undead, constructs, elementals, etc. If you had a dedicated group of heroes, they could all become Necropolitans or something similar. That way they don't age, but they could also continue to protect Townsville and gain experience.

[Lunawarrior0]

Possibly, rather than having a lot of scrolls, or wands, the town might have an ancient artifact, that allows you to turn willing subjects into stone, and back. They would have to be willing subjects so that the artifact couldn't be used in combat. The artifact would have to be home brewed, but that doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Seems like a pretty cool idea.

[Weezer]

Possibly, rather than having a lot of scrolls, or wands, the town might have an ancient artifact, that allows you to turn willing subjects into stone, and back. They would have to be willing subjects so that the artifact couldn't be used in combat. The artifact would have to be home brewed, but that doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Seems like a pretty cool idea.

I agree that this could be a pretty cool idea. It also adds in a plot hook, the traditional "help someone stole our ancient and powerful artifact" quest

[Akal Saris]

It's a good idea for a story - basically a riff on Gargoyles. But it doesn't make any sense from a 3.5 rules point of view. If you had two casters well supplied with scrolls, you wouldn't need other characters to defeat an army. Also, there are several Types that do not age. Undead, constructs, elementals, etc. If you had a dedicated group of heroes, they could all become Necropolitans or something similar. That way they don't age, but they could also continue to protect Townsville and gain experience.

Damn it Person_Man, don't ruin this cool idea with your logic and rules mechanics!

Besides, nobody likes undead, despite their usefulness, and it's hard for mid-low level spellcasters to permanently bring elementals over, while constructs are probably too expensive for Townsville.

And maybe they don't have any spellcasters, only a high level expert with UMD, a trained cockatrice, and a bunch of scrolls of stone to flesh :P

Anyhow, I think it's a cool idea, especially as a Gargoyles fan, and a fan of Arthurian lore. It would even make a good start to an adventure - the PCs wake up as they break out of stone, maybe with temporary amnesia.

[Vorpalbob]

I agree that this could be a pretty cool idea. It also adds in a plot hook, the traditional "help someone stole our ancient and powerful artifact" quest

Add an invading army that arrives in (x) days, and you have a suspense-ridden adventure. I think I'll have to write that adventure. I want to include the PC's battling with the statue dudes, but also want to avoid deus ex.

[Fizban]

While the ranks of statues looks awesomely cool, there are other spells that could do this better. Smokey Confinement at the same level lets you store them all in 100gp pokeballs that you can reuse, and won't require another spell to get them out: you you just uncork the pokeball. Far cheaper than scrolls or wands, and for infinite use traps you'd only need the trap of the one spell. It's much safer as well, since if the pokeball breaks they just reappear, instead of losing a limb.

A villager runs into town, panting from exhaustion: the horde has used dark magic to mask their advance and will arrive the very next day. The next day the village elder stands at the edge of town with a rack of shining crystal test tubes and tries to reason with the enemy, knowing there is no way he will succeed. When an archer shoots him dead, the vials fall to the ground and shatter, and an army of heroes appears, the same heroes that defended the village against the last attack, and all those before that one.