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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    So, I'm trying to make a... well, the title's moderately explanatory, I guess. It's a half-fire elemental gish that is mainly psychic warrior with 2 levels in Pyrokineticist. I'm not going for supremely optimized, but I want it to be viable without ANY monk levels, so I'd like some help- you know, good feats and level dips to make it deal a good amount of unarmed damage. Here is what I have.

    Relevant ability scores: Wis, Dex (weapon finesse), Con.

    Classes: Mainly Psywarrior, with a two-level dip in Pyro for Hands Afire. Can anyone think of any other dips? Absolutely NO standard monk levels, but nonstandard monks are ok.

    Feats: As of yet, none. Please note that, from Hands Afire's wording, it is hard to tell if A) feats like Flying Kick apply (because Hands Afire affects a hand and Flying Kick is a kick, but this is really just fluff), or B) whether unarmed feats apply, armed feats apply, or both apply.

    That's all so far. I was planning on having it be a Githzerai for the huge Dex bonus, the Wis bonus, and the flavor, but if something has something better, that's good too.

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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    What about swordsage? It has great skill synergie and desert wind would be great for fire. As for psionic, either refluffed diamond mind or go for one of the hombrewed psionic disciplines on these forums.
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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    Quote Originally Posted by demidracolich View Post
    What about swordsage? It has great skill synergie and desert wind would be great for fire. As for psionic, either refluffed diamond mind or go for one of the hombrewed psionic disciplines on these forums.
    Hmm... My only references are the D20 SRD site (No, I don't even have the actual CORE books), so I don't know how swordsage works. Would it work with unarmed? Also, what's desert wind? As for diamond mind...
    What's diamond mind?
    Remember that it's a gish. It has plenty of fire, but I need more unarmed strike power and more gish. Psywarrior is great at gish.

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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    Swordsage or homebrewed Monk spin-offs are definitely your best bets for dipping.

    Are you allowed to add the fire damage to Claws of the Beast attacks? Because Claws of the Beast is pretty much the favorite weapon of PsyWarriors. It's pretty easy to fluff it as martial arts fist attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral Master View Post
    Hmm... My only references are the D20 SRD site (No, I don't even have the actual CORE books), so I don't know how swordsage works. Would it work with unarmed? Also, what's desert wind? As for diamond mind...
    What's diamond mind?
    Swordsage has a popular Unarmed variant that is fantastic for Unarmed (as it should be); it's basically an upgrade of the Monk concept.

    Desert Wind and Diamond Mind are groups ("disciplines") of Swordsage abilities.

    You might find at least the online Excerpts of Tome of Battle interesting to look at. You can also download all the book's Maneuvers for free, though that doesn't tell you everything you need to know about the Swordsage class (like how many maneuvers it gets, at what levels).
    Last edited by Draz74; 2010-05-07 at 04:25 PM.
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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    There's a monk for you in my sig. Take a look at the ACFs at the end.
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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    I'm trying to avoid homebrew. I'll look into swordsage tho. Is swordsage arcane? I wanted psionics to avoid ASF.

    @V: I didn't mean that swordsage was homebrew. Maneuvers might be good, but I'm still keeping the Pyro levels. Does swordsage do gish well? If it does, I can just take it instead of Psywarrior, and take Wild Talent as a feat.
    Last edited by Lateral; 2010-05-07 at 05:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral Master View Post
    I'm trying to avoid homebrew. I'll look into swordsage tho. Is swordsage arcane? I wanted psionics to avoid ASF.
    Swordsage is from Tome of Battle, and is neither arcane nor psionic, instead offering an excellent mechanism called maneuvers which are used on a per-encounter\until-recovered basis.
    Lagren: I took Livers Need Not Apply, only reflavoured.
    DocRoc: to?
    Lagren: So whenever Harry wisecracks, he regains HP.

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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    I think I understand why your so opposed to the monk, under normal circumstances its generally not that powerful, but in this instance you really should consider the tashalatora monk/psy warrior build. Tashalatora is a feat from the Eberron book Secrets of Sarlona that taken with the feat Monastic Training (psywarrior) allows your monk and psywarrior levels to stack for determining your AC bonus, flurry of blows, and unarmed damage. One level of monk (recommended two for evasion and the free feats), two feats and now your almost a gestalt character. Toss in two levels of pyrokineticist and you are now a Flaming Kung Fu Psychic Warrior of Doom.

    I'll second the swordsage (as well as Tome of Battle in general) if you are really that opposed to taking levels in monk.

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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wyrm View Post
    I think I understand why your so opposed to the monk, under normal circumstances its generally not that powerful, but in this instance you really should consider the tashalatora monk/psy warrior build. Tashalatora is a feat from the Eberron book Secrets of Sarlona that taken with the feat Monastic Training (psywarrior) allows your monk and psywarrior levels to stack for determining your AC bonus, flurry of blows, and unarmed damage. One level of monk (recommended two for evasion and the free feats), two feats and now your almost a gestalt character. Toss in two levels of pyrokineticist and you are now a Flaming Kung Fu Psychic Warrior of Doom.

    I'll second the swordsage (as well as Tome of Battle in general) if you are really that opposed to taking levels in monk.
    ...PERFECT!
    The anti-monk thing was just for the monk's disadvantages, but this neatly and effortlessly coup-de-grace's that.
    With a vorpal greataxe.
    Does Tashtalora have a prerequisite?
    Also, are there any feats or level dips that will give it pounce?
    Never mind, there's a psywarrior power that does that.
    How do I get around the Flurry of Misses?
    Last edited by Lateral; 2010-05-07 at 06:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    Tashalatora (Psychic Warrior) is your best bet, but if you are still opposed to that, then you could dip 1-2 levels in Barbarian.

    Use either the Lion or Wolf Totem with the Whirling Frenzy variant from CW and UA respectively. I'm 90% sure they stack, but I'm AFB right now. Then take the Blazing Berzerker feat from Sandstorm, if only because it fits your theme. Ironically, though, you would be better off taking the Frozen Berzerker feat from Frostburn if you get any kind of fire immunity from being a half-fire elemental.

    Also, on the subject of races/templates, Githzerai is a pretty bad choice because of the LA, especially when coupled with the LA from your template. If you can use UA, then use the LA buyoff to make it more bearable. If you want a better race choice, pick Goliath from Races of Stone. Powerful Build is good for anyone, but especially for unarmed characters, because you can use gauntlets one size bigger than you.

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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    Tashalatora has 1 prereq feat, Monastic Training, which is in the Eberron Campaign Setting. It allows you to multiclass freely between Monk and any ONE psionic class (like PsyWar or Ardent). Tashalatora then stacks your Monk levels with that one psionic class to determine your monkly abilities. It also requires 5 ranks in Autohypnosis, a GREAT psionic skill, and a couple ranks in Know: Psionics.

    Since you are "effectively" gaining monk levels, you're flurry penalty is reduced by -1 at level 5, and another -1 from there at level 9 (so, no penalty after your monk levels + psionic class levels =>9). You also get greater flurry at 12, which gives you your 3rd attack. Since it all stacks, its not really "flurry of misses", especially not after level 9.

    As far as races go, you can seldom go wrong with the psionic Half Giant from the SRD, or your basic human. HG gives you +2 PP, and Powerful Build, which is nice if you want to grapple or trip. Human gives you an extra feat which you can spend on a boatload of great feats to increase your combat potential.

    Classic entry is thus:

    Monk1 Imp Unarmed Strike, Imp Grapple (or Stunning Fist)
    Monk2 Monastic Training(X)
    X1 Tashalatora
    X2
    X...18

    X should be PsyWar or Mantled Ardent. PsyWar is in the SRD, Ardent is in CompPsionic.

    Here is a build I built for a game a while back. We got a free +1 LA, which you might not get, but the build is otherwise pretty good. She was a bit more Grapple focused than you may want to be, but you can change that easily.

    Please don't comment on that thread, if you have any questions, ask them here.
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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    Quote Originally Posted by strider24seven View Post
    Githzerai is a pretty bad choice because of the LA, especially when coupled with the LA from your template.
    Oh, I didn't realize that Githzerai had a LA. The character maker I use doesn't give them (or ANY TEMPLATES!) a LA, for some reason. Ok, then, I'll go with human half-fire elemental.

    Edit: Ok, I'm building it. My DM has a houserule that makes MonTrain redundant, so he said I don't need it for Tashalatora.
    Str 11
    Dex 18
    Con 13
    Int 15
    Wis 17
    Cha 15
    (I rolled high.)
    Male CG Level 7 (+3 LA)
    Monk 1/PsyWar 4/ Pyro 2
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    Lv.1:
    IUS (monk 1)
    Stunning Fist (monk 1)
    Weapon Finesse (human bonus)
    Flying Kick (+1d12 dmg when you charge with an unarmed strike)

    Level 2:
    Tashalatora
    Psionic Talent (Psywarrior bonus)

    Level 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
    Psionic meditation in there somewhere, otherwise any
    Last edited by Lateral; 2010-05-07 at 08:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral Master View Post
    Oh, I didn't realize that Githzerai had a LA. The character maker I use doesn't give them (or ANY TEMPLATES!) a LA, for some reason. Ok, then, I'll go with human half-fire elemental.

    Edit: Ok, I'm building it.
    Str 11
    Dex 18
    Con 13
    Int 15
    Wis 17
    Cha 15
    (I rolled high.)
    Exactly how does LA work? Do I take 3 levels in "half-fire elemental", or is it that I start at level 1, but I need enough experience to go from lv4 to level 5 instead of 1 to 2?
    Half Fire Elemental is LA 3.

    Technically, if everyone is starting at level 1, then your character is effectively level 4 with 0 xp... so you need enough XP to go from level 1 to level 5 before you actually gain a level.

    On the other hand... there's a cool article in one of the Dragon Magazines (can't recall which issue... my reference file is at home) that allows you to take "Levels" of Half-Elemental one at a time. So that at level 1, you'd have no special Half-Elemental traits... but once you picked up the first of the 3 ECLs, you'd start getting the spell-like abilities, stat mods & fire resist.

    If you just want the flavor without the +3 LA... a Fire Gensai from Forgotten Realms is only +1 LA and provides all the flavor you need, but not much of the Burninating power of Half-Elemental.

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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cat Goddess View Post
    Half Fire Elemental is LA 3.

    Technically, if everyone is starting at level 1, then your character is effectively level 4 with 0 xp... so you need enough XP to go from level 1 to level 5 before you actually gain a level.
    ...
    Good thing is that we start at level 10. I wanted to know whether I get feats, hit dice, etc. for those adjusted levels.
    Last edited by Lateral; 2010-05-07 at 07:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral Master View Post
    ...
    Good thing is that we start at level 10. I wanted to know whether I get feats, hit dice, etc. for those adjusted levels.
    No. Level Adjustment only exists for purposes of deducting from your experience. You're effectively a lower level character that gains XP as a higher level one. In other words, level adjustment sucks huge dinosaur balls.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-05-07 at 07:46 PM.
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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral Master View Post
    ...
    Good thing is that we start at level 10. I wanted to know whether I get feats, hit dice, etc. for those adjusted levels.
    Since you're LA-3, pay very close attention to LA buy-offs. When you reach class level 9 (everyone else at CL 12), buy off your first LA. Buy off your second LA at class level 15 and your third at class level 18.

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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    Hey, a thought occurs: Maybe I can take gestalt fighter/egoist instead of psywarrior. Fighters get more bonus feats and full BAB, egoists have more powers and are completely focused on gish. Does Tashalatora work with Psion?

    @V: I can go whatever I want- my DM just has to make harder encounters. There's no other players to worry about- it's a solo campaign. Also, does the fire genasi have LA?
    Last edited by Lateral; 2010-05-08 at 12:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Flaming Kung-Fu Psychic Warrior- please help

    Tashalatora works with any psionic class you take Monastic Training in. Arguably, however, if you take psionic prestige classes, then it does not work for them, only your psionic base class.

    If you go gestalt (which makes you way more powerful, imo), then see if you can take your LA on one "side" of the gestalt, instead of both. That would make a half-fire elemental githzerai much more playable. However, I would stick to half-giant or human.

    btw, how can you convince your DM to go gestalt in a non-gestalt campaign?

    +1 for the Fire Genasi for flavor.

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