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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    I wrote the Peasant Quest thread a while ago now and now I've come back around to making it actually go again. This time, I have a much more formalized rules set that's inspired by some of what was brought up in the old thread, for which I'd like to thank Hashmir and JellyPooga for their insight.

    The rules are here.

    Right now, I want to polish these rules while I get material written up for the first bits of "adventure". The issues I'm wrestling with are whether I should allow Psionics, as Hidden Talent Commoners worry me for party balance. I'm also curious about the thoughts on using Arcana Unearthed's Hero Point system. Would it be better to go with Eberron's Action Points, Iron Heroes' Glory Points, some other system or none at all. I personally think Hero Points best fits the common man rising up to take destiny in their own hands.

    Finally, I'd like to gauge the interest for running such a game. I have one player already (Amphetryon) and I'd ideally like another 3-5 players.

    So, what says you, oh Playground?
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Sounds like a cool idea, I'd be up for it.
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    It doesn't so much as demean the celestial monkey's existence, so much as fulfill it. Without the ability to be summoned to set off traps, retrieve objects from dangerous situations, and all and all be a party's guinea pig, the Celestial Monkey would languish in obscurity in the MM and do nothing more legendary than eat celestial bananas.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Ooh, I'd play.

    Psionics should be fine. After all, an analogous feat exists to get a single SLA. Is Human the only allowed race?
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    You could re-tittle the first levels as "The Attack of the Riding Dogs".

    [Edit]: I could see the Devotion feats from Comp. Champ. being quite strong at the early levels (especially if I understood correctly that you can get turn undead at level 1). So, you're all level 1 commoners, but one of you has Overland Flight for 4+Cha mod minutes per day. Or a natural weapon for d6 damage and pierces DR, and so forth.

    Also, some races (elves & half-humans) come with martial weapon proficiencies, when the other players will only have one simple weapon proficiency.
    Last edited by Greenish; 2010-05-08 at 04:59 PM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Maybe Psionics could be done with a fifth Adept ACF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    You could re-tittle the first levels as "The Attack of the Riding Dogs".
    Or 'Cat! S**t! RUN!'
    Quote Originally Posted by Deophaun View Post
    It doesn't so much as demean the celestial monkey's existence, so much as fulfill it. Without the ability to be summoned to set off traps, retrieve objects from dangerous situations, and all and all be a party's guinea pig, the Celestial Monkey would languish in obscurity in the MM and do nothing more legendary than eat celestial bananas.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Actually, you could probably let Psionics in under either Warrior (PsiWar) or Expert (Psion), with the caveat that you are required to spend your bonus feat on Hidden Talent to qualify for progressing into either class.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Psionics should be fine. After all, an analogous feat exists to get a single SLA.
    The only similar feats I can find are those in Complete Arcane but I see what you mean. That's one of the conclusions I came to as well, though I was trying to think whether the adaptability of such was still too much, regardless. Additional support may be needed before whether I allow in the mental magics.

    Is Human the only allowed race?
    Any of the core races are available. Humans aren't the only people who know how to schlep and farm, y'know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    I could see the Devotion feats from Comp. Champ. being quite strong at the early levels (especially if I understood correctly that you can get turn undead at level 1). So, you're all level 1 commoners, but one of you has Overland Flight for 4+Cha mod minutes per day. Or a natural weapon for d6 damage and pierces DR, and so forth.
    The Turn Undead bit is only after getting into Adept and then as a Divine Adept at 2nd level. Extra Turning would be needed to start getting anywhere with that, as well.

    As for the Devotions, I'll have to have a good hard look at those, as that is kinda on the same level as Hidden Talent was for throwing early balance off for me. I don't know yet how I feel about the common man dropping negative levels on people or summoning elementals from their buckets.

    Also, some races (elves & half-humans) come with martial weapon proficiencies, when the other players will only have one simple weapon proficiency.
    I realize that but that's just a racial balance point towards elves. The thing with that is you need to be able to get access to one, which is rather difficult when you only start with 5d4 gold, when a longsword is 15 gp and a rapier is 20 gp. I'm aiming at starting in a thorp, so you may have been trained to use your racial weapons but what you trained with were practice swords and whatnot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Actually, you could probably let Psionics in under either Warrior (PsiWar) or Expert (Psion), with the caveat that you are required to spend your bonus feat on Hidden Talent to qualify for progressing into either class.
    That...is actually a decent idea on how to balance that. I'll have to contemplate that some more but I'm starting to think that could actually work fairly well.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2010-05-08 at 05:14 PM.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    The only similar feats I can find are those in Complete Arcane but I see what you mean. That's one of the conclusions I came to as well, though I was trying to think whether the adaptability of such was still too much, regardless. Additional support may be needed before whether I allow in the mental magics.



    Any of the core races are available. Humans aren't the only people who know how to schlep and farm, y'know.
    They are just generally assumed to be the ones who do it, halflings aren't out of the picture either, and elves+dwarves who live in human towns probably do as well. Half elves and half-orcs probably both can be commoners, provided we don't have racist townfolk. Gnomes would probably be harder since they are more "fey" but warrior gnomes are fairly strict.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Touchy View Post
    They are just generally assumed to be the ones who do it, halflings aren't out of the picture either, and elves+dwarves who live in human towns probably do as well. Half elves and half-orcs probably both can be commoners, provided we don't have racist townfolk. Gnomes would probably be harder since they are more "fey" but warrior gnomes are fairly strict.
    Gnomes have their commoners as well, as they raise their underground mushroom farms and raise their goats and chickens. They still gotta eat, too, and gnome communities aren't exactly nomadic or wholely dependent on trade for their foodstuffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard View Post
    Maybe Psionics could be done with a fifth Adept ACF.
    The issue there is I'm drawing a blank on refluffing the adept into psionics. Probably not that hard, really, it's just that i don't get to do psionics all that often, so modifying things in that system is a larger hurdle for me than devising the other ACFs. The issue of what to change their special to is another thing, though i suppose they could all have psicrystals or something.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2010-05-08 at 05:21 PM.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard View Post
    Or 'Cat! S**t! RUN!'
    I was referring to Handle Animal being a commoner's strongest weapon. Riding Dogs might be a bit expensive, but a couple of cats shouldn't be too hard to come along, you're right.

    Hmm, a mule would probably be the most strongest option at 8gp, though normal dogs can't be that expensive either.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    I'm most familiar with Action Points, but Hero Points et al are fine alternatives.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    I'd definitely be interested in a game like this. I'll read the rules when I finish up this character for a different game I'm applying to and offer (probably not too helpful criticism).
    It's been a bit, GitP. If you're reading this, you're either digging through old stuff, or I've posted for the first time in forever.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    I might be interested in participating in this.

    I would like to make it clear that I might not be able to post very often for a period of about a month or so, starting May 23rd. If this will be a problem, I would understand denying me on those grounds.
    Editor and playtester for Legend.

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    Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    I say this should probably get moved over to the Recruitment board.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Gnomes have their commoners as well, as they raise their underground mushroom farms and raise their goats and chickens. They still gotta eat, too, and gnome communities aren't exactly nomadic or wholely dependent on trade for their foodstuffs.



    The issue there is I'm drawing a blank on refluffing the adept into psionics. Probably not that hard, really, it's just that i don't get to do psionics all that often, so modifying things in that system is a larger hurdle for me than devising the other ACFs. The issue of what to change their special to is another thing, though i suppose they could all have psicrystals or something.
    I'd think a psionic adept fluff-wise would be easier to make than most spellcasting classes - the idea of a low-grade psychic talent is a staple of the genre. Your big hurdle is going to be the mechanical side of converting the adept into a psionicist.
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    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    I'm in. Send this to the recruitment board.
    -Xavez
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    It seems like a pretty cool idea, the rules seem like they'd do a good job at transitioning the characters from "oh **** a cat" to more traditional heroing.
    If you're still looking for people i'm up for it, just finished finals and have lots of time on my hands.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Glyphstone View Post
    I'd think a psionic adept fluff-wise would be easier to make than most spellcasting classes - the idea of a low-grade psychic talent is a staple of the genre. Your big hurdle is going to be the mechanical side of converting the adept into a psionicist.
    1 power known per level, with a level progression on par with the sorcerer-adept, use the PsiWar PP progression for a lower scale of PP reserve, which will eventually scale up to Psion-level PP reserve.

    EDIT: Here's what I mean:

    {table]Level | PP/day | Powers Known | Maximum Level
    1st | 0* | 1 | 1st
    2nd | 1 | 2 | 1st
    3rd | 3 | 3 | 1st
    4th | 5 | 4 | 2nd
    5th | 7 | 5 | 2nd
    6th | 11 | 6 | 2nd[/table]
    * still has any bonus pp from the appropriate table, plus any from Wild Talent

    That's for the Adept going into Psion. He may only choose powers from the Psion list, he cannot choose a specialty until he actually gets his first Psion level. He may choose to switch out a single power for every level he takes, as long as it is the same level power as the one replaced.

    For the Warrior going into PsiWar, he doesn't actually get any powers or pp, other than those from his feat, until he actually starts taking PsiWar levels. Note that he might actually start loosing BAB when switching PsiWar levels for Warrior levels... this needs to be taken into consideration. As an option, he may also receive any bonus PP he might get from a high Wis stat, so he can at least use his power more than once per day.

    An Adept going into Psion needs to choose his Power from the Wild Talent feat from the Psion powers list, and a Warrior going into PsiWar needs to choose his power from the Wild Talent feat from the PsiWar list.
    Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2010-05-10 at 01:35 AM.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    What about a weaker version of the Sorcerer? (i.e. Adept with only arcane spells) Also, what level do we have to be to start gaining character class levels?
    -Xavez
    P.S. Shouldn't this get moved to the recruitment board?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Quote Originally Posted by IonDragon View Post
    I say this should probably get moved over to the Recruitment board.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord Xavez View Post
    I'm in. Send this to the recruitment board.
    -Xavez
    In due time, as I need to finalize details, as well as get used to my current job's schedule, as a heavy-handed shift has occurred with it, changing my work times from 9-5 M-F to mostly nights 3:30-midnight and trading working Thursday for Saturday. Also of note was that I wanted to gauge interest (which there evidentally is, I've noted ), so this isn't officially a recruitment thread. I'll open one up and link from here when I have enough material together to comfortably run the first amounts of misadventure and whatnot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    1 power known per level, with a level progression on par with the sorcerer-adept, use the PsiWar PP progression for a lower scale of PP reserve, which will eventually scale up to Psion-level PP reserve.

    EDIT: Here's what I mean:

    {table]Level | PP/day | Powers Known | Maximum Level
    1st | 0* | 1 | 1st
    2nd | 1 | 2 | 1st
    3rd | 3 | 3 | 1st
    4th | 5 | 4 | 2nd
    5th | 7 | 5 | 2nd
    6th | 11 | 6 | 2nd[/table]
    * still has any bonus pp from the appropriate table, plus any from Wild Talent

    That's for the Adept going into Psion. He may only choose powers from the Psion list, he cannot choose a specialty until he actually gets his first Psion level. He may choose to switch out a single power for every level he takes, as long as it is the same level power as the one replaced.

    For the Warrior going into PsiWar, he doesn't actually get any powers or pp, other than those from his feat, until he actually starts taking PsiWar levels. Note that he might actually start loosing BAB when switching PsiWar levels for Warrior levels... this needs to be taken into consideration. As an option, he may also receive any bonus PP he might get from a high Wis stat, so he can at least use his power more than once per day.

    An Adept going into Psion needs to choose his Power from the Wild Talent feat from the Psion powers list, and a Warrior going into PsiWar needs to choose his power from the Wild Talent feat from the PsiWar list.
    Nice, thanks Shneeky, that makes my job slightly easier. I may tweak things here and there before officially adding to the rules but having a rough idea to work with is appreciated.

    I'll have a look at Psychic Warrior in their transition, as it may be easiest to have them multiclass from the get-go between Warrior and Psychic Adept and transition into Psychic Warrior from there. Similar things could be done with possibly Duskblade, as well, so I'll have to have a look to see how things mesh up.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord Xavez View Post
    What about a weaker version of the Sorcerer? (i.e. Adept with only arcane spells) Also, what level do we have to be to start gaining character class levels?
    -Xavez
    Both are answered in the rules above. Better NPC class advancement (Adept, Expert and Warrior) starts at 4th and actual PC classes opens up at 7th, with full hero status arriving at 10th and beyond.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2010-05-10 at 05:44 PM.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    I personally think Hero Points best fits the common man rising up to take destiny in their own hands.
    What are Hero Points and how do they work?
    -Xavez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    But you can't ride in a pack saddle unless you're an object. So better switch to Female.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord Xavez View Post
    What are Hero Points and how do they work?
    -Xavez
    Again answered in the rules I linked above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Again answered in the rules I linked above.
    Ah. Read the rules now. Even more interested. Can I roll up my character now?
    -Xavez
    P.S. Use Hero Points.
    Last edited by Darklord Xavez; 2010-05-10 at 06:53 PM.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord Xavez View Post
    Ah. Read the rules now. Even more interested. Can I roll up my character now?
    -Xavez
    I don't think I could stop you from rolling up a character, now could I?

    Just keep in mind that I don't know when I will officially start this up, as I have to finalize Psionics (though it probably won't change that much from what Shneeky has suggested), as well as finish writing materials, like the starting town (which will be a thorp, btw) and the local "fauna" giving you guys an excuse for leaving the safety of home and hearth.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2010-05-10 at 06:08 PM.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    I don't think I could stop you from rolling up a character, now could I?

    Just keep in mind that I don't know when I will officially start this up, as I have to finalize Psionics (though it probably won't change that much from what Shneeky has suggested), as well as finish writing materials, like the starting town (which will be a thorp, btw) and the local "fauna" giving you guys an excuse for leaving the safety of home and hearth.
    Okay then. Character sheet coming soon.
    -Xavez
    My name is pronounced "ZAH-vez"
    Avatar by Dashwood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    But you can't ride in a pack saddle unless you're an object. So better switch to Female.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Darklord Xavez's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Wisconsin!
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Full backstory needed? Also, what are "Vitality and Wound Points"? The rules you provided doesn't explain what they are, or give a remotely useful reference for them.
    -Xavez
    Last edited by Darklord Xavez; 2010-05-10 at 06:54 PM.
    My name is pronounced "ZAH-vez"
    Avatar by Dashwood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    But you can't ride in a pack saddle unless you're an object. So better switch to Female.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Demons_eye's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Mi Lower P
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    This is cool and I would like to join.

    Why it sounds cool is because the characters are likely to have a great sense of accomplishments and achievements.

    "Remember a year ago? We were pullin weeds and what not?"
    "Ya...."
    "Weeds be fighting back now"
    "Ya...."
    "Need some more o' that poison now"
    "Shut up Bob"
    Last edited by Demons_eye; 2010-05-10 at 07:02 PM.
    ~Sweet avatar by Miss Nobody~

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike
    You killed it, its dead, it exploded, Good Job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logalmier View Post
    "I need a latter! Quick, find a psion so he can make one with his mind!"

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord Xavez View Post
    Full backstory needed? Also, what are "Vitality and Wound Points"? The rules you provided doesn't explain what they are, or give a remotely useful reference for them.
    -Xavez
    Unearthed Arcane I think.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    The Rabbler's Avatar

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    Feb 2010
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    the 64th layer
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    This looks like a lot of fun; I'd be interested in making a character.

    also: are ACFs for PC classes allowed? (example: soulbound weapon ACF for psychic warrior)

    EDIT: is there any chance that dungeonscape might be added to the allowed books? a factotum sounds like it would work quite nicely for this.
    Last edited by The Rabbler; 2010-05-10 at 07:37 PM.
    *note: not all advice by this poster is meant to be taken seriously.

    Warlock/Swordsage avatar by yldenfrei

    optimization is like salt. a pinch here and there can't hurt, but too much will spoil everything.

    I have salty tastes.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Male

    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Heroes are Made, not Born

    This looks like super awesome fun lol... I'd be up for playing if there's still room.
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