4e Critique my Fighter Builds

[Coidzor]

So, just started playing about 3 weeks ago, built my first fighter then, built my second fighter a week ago on friday.

A human sword and board one-handed weapon talent with a scimitar and a dwarven battlerager vigor guy with a halberd.

Humie

Spoiler

Show

Stats:

Spoiler

Show

Scimitar with Heavy Shield and Scale Armor

Ability Scores: (chosen in a bit of a hurry out of a couple of arrays)
STR 19
CON 13
DEX 10
INT 10
WIS 15
CHA 8

Feats: Wary Fighter
Human Perseverance

Background Bonus: Windrise Ports (Forgotten Realms) (2 classes able to have multiclass feats taken for them, an additional language)

Powers: At-Will: Tide of Iron, Resolute Shield, Cleave
Encounter: Covering Attack
Daily: Comeback Strike

My analysis:

Spoiler

Show

So, I pretty much messed up on my encounter and daily power selections, but even more so on Cleave.

I've got a bit of a feeling that I could have definitely done better with the two feats I did get, and I know I have very little idea of the appropriate balance to take when using an array.

Dwarf:

Spoiler

Show

Character

Spoiler

Show

*again, chosen out of a list of arrays on the official character builder. Would much rather just do point buy so there's not things like a random point in intelligence over 10 that's not doing anything for me and no dumped stats.

STR 16
CON 16
DEX 12
INT 11
WIS 15
CHA 10

Powers:
At Will: Threatening Rush, Wicked Strike
Encounter: Bell Ringer
Daily: Knee Breaker

Feat: Against All Odds

So, near as I can tell, I approached this one sideways and went with get surrounded, tempest-fighter sort of stuff with a reach fighter. Is it just me or is reach completely worthless until Polearm Gamble?

What is the philosophy for reach fighters in this edition? As all I've been able to find is, nothing until you get polearm gamble and then cheese that to the point where non-fliers are expelled from a 4x4 grid onto their backs.

[Kurald Galain]

Yeah, Covering Attack and Comeback Strike aren't that great. Cleave, however, is a good power, both for dealing damage and for wiping out minions.

See this thread for a discussion on Human Perseverance. Also, you don't need Windrise Ports unless you actually plan on taking two MC feats.

For the dwarf, I would definitely go with 18 Str. And reach is very useful even at heroic tier, because of the added tactical options. It also works very well with Footwork Lure and Rushing Cleats to give you a proning at-will.

[Coidzor]

Cleave, however, is a good power, both for dealing damage and for wiping out minions.

How so? It seemed like it'd be most useful for either keeping two foes marked or for damaging an enemy and taking out a minion at the same time, rather than any kind of real damage output.

See this thread for a discussion on Human Perseverance. Also, you don't need Windrise Ports unless you actually plan on taking two MC feats.

Yeah, I only chose it for the extra language and out of being rushed due to a printer jam on the part of the guy before me. When I had arrived early just to make sure I got a fair crack at it.

I wasn't really sure what would be a good background for a fighter, so they recommended that one and I went with it rather than go through the whole list. x.x

[Kurald Galain]

How so? It seemed like it'd be most useful for either keeping two foes marked

Cleave doesn't mark two foes, though. It's decent damage output because it does [W]+Str+Str damage, basically.

I wasn't really sure what would be a good background for a fighter, so they recommended that one and I went with it rather than go through the whole list. x.x

Auspicuous Birth is good for everyone. Barring that, I find that fighters have a pretty bad skill list, so any background that lets you add a useful skill is a good plan.

[Coidzor]

Cleave doesn't mark two foes, though. It's decent damage output because it does [W]+Str+Str damage, basically.

hmm, even less gained of it then, that's disappointing. Need to play more before I develop an opinion on spread versus concentrated damage. Still, it is situationally useful. Seems the odd man out on a sword and boarder though.

How do those rushing cleats you mentioned make footwork lure into a prone maneuver?

[Faleldir]

Why would you ever take Wicked Strike instead of Brash Strike?

[The_Pyre]

Brash Strike is arguably the one-on-one Fighter at-will par excellence. Grant CA? Sure. It won't make a difference once he's dead.

Cleave is great for clearing out minions. You can kill them two at a time.

Tide of Iron is almost a no-brainer for sword & board.

I know there's an at-will that does 1[w] and marks everyone adjacent. That might be worth looking into if you have another power slot to spare. EDIT: Yeah, it's threatening rush above.

For encounter powers, I like Hack & Hew very much, although I'm just about to use it. An Invigorating power that targets a second opponent as an effect? Sounds much better than Passing Attack.

My two cp.

[Coidzor]

Why would you ever take Wicked Strike instead of Brash Strike?

I believe I fell into the trap of taking it because it could be substituted in for a melee basic attack.


So. Either of these guys salvageable or should I make a new character late today/tomorrow?

[Yakk]

** Background Bonus: Windrise Ports (Forgotten Realms) (2 classes able to have multiclass feats taken for them, an additional language)

Just don't. It is cheese.

** Resolute Shield
Resist 1? Your con isn't high enough for this power.

** Cleave
Value secondary target damage at 50%, and it gives you a pretty good idea of how useful it is. On top of that, it kills minions (attack non-minion, kill minion).

With your states, Cleave is a pretty good power.

** Covering Attack
/shrug, I don't like many 1st level fighter encounter powers.

** Comeback Strike
Villian's Menace. Spending 1 extra healing surge/day is pretty mediocre.

...

My personal favorite fighter build is a human axe fighter.

Waraxe, Expertise feats.
18 str/16 con/14 wis.

Tide of Iron (or footwork lure), Brash Strike, Knockdown
Probably bell ringer as an encounter power.
Menace as a daily

Your at-will axe attack now does 1d12+7 (13.5 avg) at +4 str +2 built-in +1 talent +1 feat +2 proficiency = +10 to hit.

Your AC is 19, Fort is 17, Reflex is 13, Will is 13

[Coidzor]

** Background Bonus: Windrise Ports (Forgotten Realms) (2 classes able to have multiclass feats taken for them, an additional language)

Just don't. It is cheese.

So, what would you suggest instead? A background's necessary for a legal character and I just went with the first thing suggested to me there.

I'm retraining Resolute Shield into Brash Strike, I think, since I was sort of pressed into him seeing service again due to some printer problems and general laziness in terms of generating a new sheet. So, he hit level 2 friday night.