Combining Barbarian and Psychic Warrior

[Frozen_Feet]

While planning an ECL 5 chain-tripper and trying to squeeze as many feats out of those levels as possible, I toyed around with the idea of combining Wolf Totem Barbarian variant with psychic warrior. I came up with awesome flavor for the combo, but rage doesn't synergize that well with psionics, and berserking is quite essential of a barb for me. As a mental exercise, what sort of tactics and tricks could be used to get the most out of such combo?

Is there any trick that would allow using psionic powers during rage? (Preferably achievable at ECL 6 or below.) Official, online sources would be nice, but in a pinch homebrew will do. Ragemind is the only one I know of, but it requires Wilder and is too high level.

[Prodan]

Powers are not spells. Therefore, you can manifest while raging.

Ok, that probably won't fly in most games.

[Optimystik]

Do you have Hyperconscious?

The Cerebral Rager PrC is exactly what you're looking for.

[Ravens_cry]

I like the flavour of this, Frozen_Feet, the same reason I like the idea of a Sorcerer/Barbarian, the sheer WAAAGH! ! ! of it.
The Cerebral Rager requirements may be hard to meet though in a straight D&D game.

[Optimystik]

I like the flavour of this, Frozen_Feet, the same reason I like the idea of a Sorcerer/Barbarian, the sheer WAAAGH! ! ! of it.
The Cerebral Rager requirements may be hard to meet though in a straight D&D game.

That's the 3.0 version (talents are psionic cantrips, which don't exist in 3.5.) The version in Hyperconscious is 8/10 manifesting, not 6/10. (It only loses the first and last level... which means you can drop out at 9 and only lose 1 ML.)

In terms of manifesting and using skills that require concentration while raging - he can do both without problems.

I agree that qualifying at 6 will be hard though, because you need a 3rd-level power - which Psywars don't get until 7.
Scratch that, I was reading the wrong PrC he can qualify just fine.

The requirements for the Hyperconscious Rager are:

To qualify to become a cerebral rager, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Alignment: Any nonlawful
Concentration: 2 ranks
Intimidate: 4 ranks
Knowledge (Psionics): 7 ranks
Special: Able to rage as a barbarian at least once per day or possess the volatile mind class ability

[Ravens_cry]

That's the 3.0 version (talents are psionic cantrips, which don't exist in 3.5.) The version in Hyperconscious is 8/10 manifesting, not 6/10. (It only loses the first and last level... which means you can drop out at 9 and only lose 1 ML.)

In terms of manifesting and using skills that require concentration while raging - he can do both without problems.

I agree that qualifying at 6 will be hard though, because you need a 3rd-level power - which Psywars don't get until 7.
Scratch that, I was reading the wrong PrC he can qualify just fine.

The requirements for the Hyperconscious Rager are:

Thanks, I don't own 3.5 UA or other psionic book, so again, thank you for the info.
I am going to have to get all rules lawyer on your buttocks for posting copyright material not available for free online from the source though. It's against forum policy, IIRC.

[Person_Man]

Righteous Wrath (BoED) lets you "keep your mental abilities while raging" allowing you to deal non-lethal damage. The fluff supports being able to cast/manifest or use Skills while in a Rage, but not the crunch.

Also, why would a Psychic Warrior care about Rage? It's only a +4 to Str and Con unless you invest heavily in Rage improving feats and PrC. More levels of Psychic Warrior would be superior, for access to higher level powers and more power points and bonus feats.

[Frozen_Feet]

Do you have Hyperconscious?

Unfortunately, no, but I'll see if I can get a copy in my dirty paws. The preview looks nice, got to admit.

In the meantime, more goodies are accepted.

[Lycanthromancer]

Righteous Wrath (BoED) lets you "keep your mental abilities while raging" allowing you to deal non-lethal damage. The fluff supports being able to cast/manifest or use Skills while in a Rage, but not the crunch.

Also, why would a Psychic Warrior care about Rage? It's only a +4 to Str and Con unless you invest heavily in Rage improving feats and PrC. More levels of Psychic Warrior would be superior, for access to higher level powers and more power points and bonus feats.

Whirling Frenzy allows you to pounce on a charge. Which will save you power points on psionic lion's charge. However, there are other sources of pounce, which do allow you to manifest.

[Frozen_Feet]

Also, why would a Psychic Warrior care about Rage? It's only a +4 to Str and Con unless you invest heavily in Rage improving feats and PrC. More levels of Psychic Warrior would be superior, for access to higher level powers and more power points and bonus feats.

Oh, I know it's sub-optimal, but the flavor would fit real nice with the setting, and the idea of going all Carrie with a character appeals to me. I just felt like checking if there's a decent way to pull it off.

[AmberVael]

Whirling Frenzy allows you to pounce on a charge. Which will save you power points on psionic lion's charge. However, there are other sources of pounce, which do allow you to manifest.

...what? Where does this come from? Whirling Frenzy from UA, right? It doesn't give you pounce, from what I'm reading.

[Draz74]

He's mixing it up with the Lion Spirit Totem ACF (replacing Fast Movement) from Complete Champion.

[Ravens_cry]

...what? Where does this come from? Whirling Frenzy from UA, right? It doesn't give you pounce, from what I'm reading.

They get a extra attack when in whirling frenzy, but at a minus 2 to all attacks made that round, including AoO. This means they get two attacks as a standard action, but it's not Pounce.

[AmberVael]

They get a extra attack when in whirling frenzy, but at a minus 2 to all attacks made that round, including AoO. This means they get two attacks as a standard action, but it's not Pounce.

Well, yes, I read that (and knew that already). But as you said, that is not Pounce.

[Ravens_cry]

Well, yes, I read that (and knew that already). But as you said, that is not Pounce.

True, maybe, as others have suggested, they are confusing it with the ACF.

[Lycanthromancer]

D'oh. You're correct. That level of barbarian should go towards lion totem. Still totally worth it, given how many natural attacks a psychic warrior can get, even at first level.

The rage (or whirling frenzy) can be used AFTER you buff up (even if it's just a Linked Power'd metamorphosis + offensive precognition). You're no worse off than a regular barbarian at that point (and likely quite a bit better).

[Angry Bob]

If you wanted to "go all carrie", you could go wilder instead, or multiclass ardent with appropriate(or even customized) mantles and barbarian for practiced manifester exploitation. With righteous fury, that would actually be better than I realized it would be when I started writing this post.

[Runestar]

They get a extra attack when in whirling frenzy, but at a minus 2 to all attacks made that round, including AoO. This means they get two attacks as a standard action, but it's not Pounce.

I am fairly sure you still need a full-attack to benefit from the extra attack. So no 2 attacks on a standard action.

[arguskos]

I am fairly sure you still need a full-attack to benefit from the extra attack. So no 2 attacks on a standard action.

Actually, no, that is not clarified. Here, have the exact text (SRD):

A barbarian with this variant form of rage doesn't gain the normal bonuses when he enters a rage. Instead, when a barbarian with whirling frenzy enters a rage, he temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength and a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves. While in a whirling frenzy, the barbarian may make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the barbarian might make before his next action.

Whirling frenzy is otherwise identical to the standard barbarian rage in all other ways. At 11th level (when a standard barbarian gains greater rage), the Strength bonus increases to +6, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +3. At 20th level (when a standard barbarian gains mighty rage), the Strength bonus increases to +8, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +4.

A barbarian using this variant doesn't gain indomitable will at 14th level. Instead, he gains evasion, but only while in a whirling frenzy.

A character can't use whirling frenzy at the same time that he uses any other form of rage (or similar ability).

Emphasis mine.

It is possible to read that as allowing you to gain an extra attack even when making a standard action attack.

[Teron]

Also from the SRD:

Multiple Attacks
A character who can make more than one attack per round must use the full attack action in order to get more than one attack.

Nothing about Whirling Frenzy suggests it overrides this rule.

[Ravens_cry]

Also from the SRD:


Nothing about Whirling Frenzy suggests it overrides this rule.

And specific beats general.

[Optimystik]

Also, why would a Psychic Warrior care about Rage? It's only a +4 to Str and Con unless you invest heavily in Rage improving feats and PrC. More levels of Psychic Warrior would be superior, for access to higher level powers and more power points and bonus feats.

Cerebral Rage is different - it boosts your key ability score (Wis for a Psywar) instead of Str, and gives you a metric ton of bonus PP, which they sorely need. Each rage attempt you burn gives you twice your ML as a bonus, and as you advance through the class, you can burn multiple rages simultaneously to triple and quadruple this amount.

For a Psywar, 80 extra PP at 20 is nothing to sneeze at. You don't have very long to burn through them all though.

[Runestar]

And specific beats general.

Except that whirling rage states nothing specifically about letting you make multiple attacks as a standard action. So we can still assume it is still subject to the same rules governing multiple attacks in general.

I see it working the same way as haste, and in all the years I have played dnd, not once have I seen anyone in either my games or in forums online every claim that you can make extra attacks on a single attack.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Shouldn't a Psywarrior be fine with just an all day buff. Hustle Link a buff the first round then rage and charge? Maybe delay rage a round for a second hustle linked buff.