Teleport and grapple query

[Aotrs Commander]

A situation arose in today's game worthy of some discussion and/or clarification.

Scene: The Paladin has been grappled by a very angry (and nearly dead) Illithid Cleric, who is one round away from pulling her brains out. The psion, in a last ditch attempt to save her, manifests Dimension Twister (Complete Psi, pg 83) on the Paladin. This would allow the paladin to be teleported (via being sucked into a vortex) and uncerimoniously desposited within 45' feet for 5D6 damage, with the Paladin auto-failiing her saving throw (5D6 being better than dead...)

I allowed it to work, but what should happen? Is that right by RAW? In some circumstances, we've allowed this sort of thing with other teleportation spells - e.g. Knight's Move, to teleport out of a creature that had swallowed a character whole. In this case I thought about it for a moment because of the description in the spell (i.e sucking the target into a vortex rather than straight dematerialisation).

There might be a reasonable case (even if not for RAW's sake, for verisimilitude's) that the illithid might have been able to maybe made a grapple check to hold onto the Paladin and prevent the spell from working. Or perhaps gone along for the ride (though the fact the spell has SR and only targets one creature made me dubious on this last point.)

Thoughts? What would you have done?

(Bearing in mind I would have doubted the illithid would have actually survived to actually Eat Brains if the spell didn't work, what with the whole party between it's actions, including the Rogue/Ninja/Invisible Blade floating right above its head...)

[AslanCross]

Teleportation is teleportation. It's an instantaneous movement that does not involve any physical struggling. If a creature is no longer in the same space as the creature grappling it, it should end---the two are distinct targets.

The rules don't make a distinction between "kinds of teleportation." It's a fluff description, that's all. If it involved a physical struggle, the spell would call for a Reflex save and not a Will save. Thus I don't think the illithid should be able to resist it with a grapple check.

I'd just give my players the benefit of the doubt for using an offensive spell to creatively save a party member's life. He took damage for it, anyway.

[Eldariel]

Dimension Twister has "One creature" as a target so RAW is pretty clear as long as Paladin is declared as the target. And no, the Illithid can't really do anything about it. Magic (and psionics) just plain beats muscle mass in that kinda stuff; besides, he isn't just pulled, he's displaced in time. Muscle power doesn't really come into picture there. So yeah, it should work out as you ruled it.

EDIT: AslanNinjas.

[PhoenixRivers]

There's really only one type of grapple that I know of that persists through a teleport. Telekinesis, as the force isn't in a specific square.

[Hendel]

There's really only one type of grapple that I know of that persists through a teleport. Telekinesis, as the force isn't in a specific square.

I am not sure about persisting through the teleport. That might be one interpretation, but I would allow a caster to teleport out of a telekinetic grapple.

[Keld Denar]

If the grapplee is still within LoS of the caster of the force effect, they could just retarget the teleporter with an effect like Bigbly's Grasping Fist or such after the port. This is mostly for short range teleports like Anlets of Translocation and such.

[twrch2000]

Further discussion, if I may, what would happen in a case where an ally and an enemy are grappling, a sorcerer moves up and casts Teleport, Greater while touching the willing ally (who is currently winning the grapple). Will negates for the unwilling foe, if we go that route, or since the foe isn't being touched does he even get a throw. Could the foe be considered as in the possession of the ally, and therefore get no resist roll? Or does the foe fall flat on his face and the party member just disappear? Thoughts?

[Escheton]

the last one

[Optimystik]

Paladin goes poof, no snack for His Tentacleness.

Very creative, btw.

[Aotrs Commander]

Aha. Made the right call then, jolly good.

[PhoenixRivers]

I am not sure about persisting through the teleport. That might be one interpretation, but I would allow a caster to teleport out of a telekinetic grapple.

There is only one reason that grapple effects don't persist through a teleport. The two grapplers are no longer in the same square.

Combat Maneuver

Alternatively, once per round, you can use telekinesis to perform a bull rush, disarm, grapple (including pin), or trip. Resolve these attempts as normal, except that they don’t provoke attacks of opportunity, you use your caster level in place of your base attack bonus (for disarm and grapple), you use your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer) in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier, and a failed attempt doesn’t allow a reactive attempt by the target (such as for disarm or trip). No save is allowed against these attempts, but spell resistance applies normally. This version of the spell can last 1 round per caster level, but it ends if you cease concentration.

This isn't a creature. It's a targeted spell effect. Unless there's a reason that targeted spell effects are stationary in a square (which this does not state), then it makes sense that they stay with their target.

After all, dimension door doesn't end a Bull's Strength or a Charm Person. Why would it end any other targeted effect?