[D&D]Slave costs

[Muz]

Obviously, I'm talking within the context of a D&D game. Long story short, there's an educated slave serving as a city guide and translator for hire (her owners are paid for a couple hours or days, and they send her out with the ones who pay). The party--who's not from this city--wants to free her, but for various reasons I won't go into, they want to do it legally (i.e. no just rescuing her and helping her escape the city).

The thing is, I've no idea how much her owners should want. As the value of a GP varies from game to game (and this is a 2nd ed. game, to boot), I suppose I'm more looking for a relative value. (Worth 100 decent longswords, the price of a small house, 10 horses, etc.) Being a rather well-educated slave, and young, I figure those factors would up the cost.

I feel a little creepy even asking this sort of thing.

[Ichneumon]

I use the following for my 3.5 game:

50 gp for a regular slave.
100 gp for a regular slave with a lot of experience.
500 gp for a slave who's trained in a certain skill and is very good at it.
1000 gp for an attractive female slave, independent of her skills or anything.

[Reynard]

Coincidentally, this came up in the VoP thread exactly 4 minutes before your post.

BoVD doesn't- but Lords of Madness (in the Neogi section) does.

Basic formula: (CR x CR) X 100 gp. (CRs less than 1 are round up to 1).

So, minimum price of a slave is 100 gp.

If the slave has exceptional abilities, price may be multiplied (typically by between 1 and 4).

[Catch]

Historically, slaves have been very, very expensive, restricted to the wealthiest by cost. Instead of focusing on realism, choose what will best suit your plot. For the context of your adventure, I'd suggest a price equivalent to a costly magic item, but more importantly, a cost they have to struggle to afford. Maybe this is an adventure hook - get treasure, buy a slave her freedom. If they've worked to raise the money, your players will feel like they've earned their good deed, rather than just throwing down some GP like bored philanthropists.

[Telonius]

Yeah, it's a creepy subject. What little I've been able to turn up on it usually doesn't say which year the figures are weighted to. That said, real-world figures between 1850 and today seem to run somewhere between $300 and $2,000, depending on the nature of the work - or up to 1/16 of the median US annual wage. Putting that in D&D perspective, I'd probably use a trained hireling at 3sp/day. 3sp times 365 days = 1095sp. 1/16 of that is about 70sp, or 7 gold as the going rate for a high-demand slave.

[Bucky]

Use some basic economics.

The slave is providing her owner with a fixed income, which you can estimate by multiplying the fee per day by the fraction of the time she is hired out. A city that size ought to have a banking system of some form, so you should be able to find the local 'fair' interest rate - not the interest rate the loan sharks charge, but the interest rate the slave's owner would get by lending out money.

Ignoring the slave's limited working lifetime, a generous but reasonable offer would be the amount of money for which the interest on that money, plus the slave's upkeep cost, would be the income the slave earns.

(sale price)*(interest rate)=(slave's rent)*(fraction of time slave is rented) - (slave's upkeep cost)

[Milskidasith]

Historically, slaves have been very, very expensive, restricted to the wealthiest by cost. Instead of focusing on realism, choose what will best suit your plot. For the context of your adventure, I'd suggest a price equivalent to a costly magic item, but more importantly, a cost they have to struggle to afford. Maybe this is an adventure hook - get treasure, buy a slave her freedom. If they've worked to raise the money, your players will feel like they've earned their good deed, rather than just throwing down some GP like bored philanthropists.

Unless they are very low level, the services of a 1 HD commoner can be replicated with cheap items; why would she be so costly? Also, greed; if the slave is worth so much the party can't afford her, think of the loot you can get instead. Sacrifice one to save many with a new set of plusses, basically.

[Boci]

I use the following for my 3.5 game:

50 gp for a regular slave.
100 gp for a regular slave with a lot of experience.
500 gp for a slave who's trained in a certain skill and is very good at it.
1000 gp for an attractive female slave, independent of her skills or anything.

I'm not too sure how detailed we can discuss this so as brief as possibly: I'd knock a 0 off the last one, they aren't worth that much.

[Milskidasith]

Use some basic economics.

The slave is providing her owner with a fixed income, which you can estimate by multiplying the fee per day by the fraction of the time she is hired out. A city that size ought to have a banking system of some form, so you should be able to find the local 'fair' interest rate - not the interest rate the loan sharks charge, but the interest rate the slave's owner would get by lending out money.

Ignoring the slave's limited working lifetime, a generous but reasonable offer would be the amount of money for which the interest on that money, plus the slave's upkeep cost, would be the income the slave earns.

(price)*(interest rate)=(slave's rent)*(fraction of time slave is rented) - (slave's upkeep cost)

It should be price = interest*(time*(income-upkeep)), where time is a few years they could guarantee income. Your equation was just weird and not solved for the price.

[FoE]

A lot of things factor into the price of a slave: where you bought the slave, what you're using the slave for, its race, its gender, etc. Also, if you intend to "keep" the slave (which I guess in this context is freeing her), that would drive up the price.

Mmmm ... 200 g.p. seems a fair price.

[JeenLeen]

How common is slavery in your campaign world? That should impact the cost. If even townsfolk have a couple slaves, then it's probably reasonably cheap.

Or do the common folk, or at least slaveowner caste, make a few hundred gp a year? I guess I recommend to view it in respect to the income of the slaveowners, to see how much they can afford.

[Greenish]

I'm not too sure how detailed we can discuss this so as brief as possibly: I'd knock a 0 off the last one, they aren't worth that much.

Yeah, skilled courtesan should be worth more than just a pretty girl. Besides, what of males?

[Telonius]

You could also use the standard cost equivalence: 1 slave = 1 pod racer.

[Bucky]

It should be price = interest*(time*(income-upkeep)), where time is a few years they could guarantee income. Your equation was just weird and not solved for the price.

Different assumptions. You're approximating for a short working lifetime while I am approximating for a longer working lifetime.

If the working lifetime is short, just ignore the interest rate and pay their lifetime profit upfront:

price= time*(income-upkeep)

If the working lifetime is long, replace the slave with an equivalent loan using my formula:
price = (income-upkeep)/interest rate

In both cases, income should be adjusted for time when the slave is not hired out.

[LibraryOgre]

Actually, I did an article on this for Palladium. Their economy is a little different, but I would go with the assumption that a slave is going to cost about as much as an equivalent horse. The CR^2*100 is a not-bad idea, though. I may even not round CR... the fractional CRs result in some really cheap slaves, but that's gonna happen a lot.

Another option would be attribute total in GP times CR. Bog-standard commoner (10s in everything, 1/2 CR) works out to 30gp. However, that ignores that some slaves don't really need much in the way of Int, Wis, or other attributes (how strong do you need your Greek tutor to be, after all?)

[Irreverent Fool]

Why would the owner want to sell her? I would play up the offense that the owner takes at the PCs offering to buy his slave. She wasn't put up for sale and perhaps he's fond of her/finds her useful to have around. Why else would he be retaining her. You don't just walk into a person's house and start offering to buy their stuff.

You could make a plot out of this. When he refuses even ludicrous prices and suggests they find their own in the local markets, the PCs might try to break her free illegally which makes for a much more exciting turn of events.

But perhaps that's too cliche.

obnoxious
sig

[Johel]

Unskilled hirelings cost 1sp a day.
That means it would cost you 365 sp a year to hire somebody to do the job a slave can do.
Let's say you depreciate a slave in 10 years, as a unskilled slave's life can be short and painful. That's 3.650 sp.
Since you still have to take care of the needs of your slave, paying that price would mean no profit for you. Therefore, it should be less.

So maximum 350 gp for an unskilled adult slave.
If slaves are numerous (recent conquest, prosperous slave import, slave breeding farms,...), the price will be lower.

Young, healthy female slaves will be worth more, as they can produce children. A female who has already children will be worth even more as there's proof she's fertile.

Children slaves would be worth crap, as they are fragile and childhood mortality was high in ancient times. It would be a risky investment and require you to take care of the child for years before he can actually produce more wealth than he costs.

Elder slaves (above 50 years old) would be worth a lot less, unless they are mean as teachers and such. They are weaker, more fragile but they have experience.

Sick, wounded, maimed or otherwise unhealthy slaves would also be worth crap, as their usefulness is greatly reduced, as well as their life expectancy. But like old cars, one can make a good deal out of it if he's willing to take the risk.

For skilled slaves, use the same method to get the maximum price :

• How long is the slave expected to serve ?
• What would it cost you to get a free professional to do the job ?

It wouldn't make sense for a slave merchant to sell his slaves above what a professional would cost, since customers would then simply subcontract the task rather than invest a lot of money in slaves.

[Catch]

Unless they are very low level, the services of a 1 HD commoner can be replicated with cheap items; why would she be so costly? Also, greed; if the slave is worth so much the party can't afford her, think of the loot you can get instead. Sacrifice one to save many with a new set of plusses, basically.

Because plot.

Everything I said was related to the telling of a good story, as I was expecting most of the posts in response to the question would be formulaic breakdown of labor costs, instead of an answer that fits the situation. Would it be challenging or satisfying to the players to realize they can buy this girl's freedom with, to adventurers, what amounts to pocket change?

[Milskidasith]

Because plot.

Everything I said was related to the telling of a good story, as I was expecting most of the posts in response to the question would be formulaic breakdown of labor costs, instead of an answer that fits the situation. Would it be challenging or satisfying to the players to realize they can buy this girl's freedom with, to adventurers, what amounts to pocket change?

Yes. When you are an adventurer who can quite literally kill beings that, in common fantasy, would be nation threatening abominations, it's not fun to be charged the price of a sword that can slay continent threatening abominations for a slave girl who'd be likely to die to mouse threatening abominations (cats).

It is, however, fun to know that, due to narrative progress, you can basically solve such simple concerns however the hell you want, because dammit, the tourism industry and the people involved in it are not ANYWHERE near your scale.

A good story has verisimilitude. When you were saving towns from hordes of goblins at level three, you shouldn't be charged your nation-level wealth to solve *one* problem for a town when you are level eight. It just makes no sense.

[Johel]

Because plot.

Everything I said was related to the telling of a good story, as I was expecting most of the posts in response to the question would be formulaic breakdown of labor costs, instead of an answer that fits the situation. Would it be challenging or satisfying to the players to realize they can buy this girl's freedom with, to adventurers, what amounts to pocket change?

Yes, it would.

At first, they would feel like they did a good thing. The girl is happy, as she can now work for herself and actually get something out of her good work beside a "good job, slave" and a additional ration.

Then they will be informed that they are thousands of slaves into this city and that while the girl had a fairly easy time (translator...she wasn't wipe a lot, I can tell you), most slaves are treated like livestock.

While they can certainly free a few of them with their current wealth, it won't change the system as a whole : their money will be used by the former owners to buy other slaves, people will still be enslaved and that girl is even likely to become a slave owner if she is successful...or to be enslaved again if she isn't.

Unless they are willing to change the system, the adventurers have done nothing but satisfy their moral need for a "we are the good guys" sticker. If they don't try to defy the system, then they are but hypocrites. If they do, then it's happy fun time for the DM...

[J.Gellert]

Slaves in Conan RPG go between 5 (male, rebellious savage) and 150 (high-born educated beautiful female) silver pieces. Just make that gold pieces for regular D&D.

[Shademan]

Slaves in Conan RPG go between 5 (male, rebellious savage) and 150 (high-born educated beautiful female) silver pieces. Just make that gold pieces for regular D&D.

on the conterary. silver is worth ALOT more in Conans world. (gold as well)
simple economics.
does not compute.

urgh...bed now...

[Catch]

Yes. When you are an adventurer who can quite literally kill beings that, in common fantasy, would be nation threatening abominations, it's not fun to be charged the price of a sword that can slay continent threatening abominations for a slave girl who'd be likely to die to mouse threatening abominations (cats).

It is, however, fun to know that, due to narrative progress, you can basically solve such simple concerns however the hell you want, because dammit, the tourism industry and the people involved in it are not ANYWHERE near your scale.

A good story has verisimilitude. When you were saving towns from hordes of goblins at level three, you shouldn't be charged your nation-level wealth to solve *one* problem for a town when you are level eight. It just makes no sense.

I didn't ask if you would find that conclusion satisfying - because I don't care. The self-important mindset of generic high-level adventurers is irrelevant, as are assumptions about the setting's economics, or metagame knowledge and how it seeps into character decisions like heavy metals from a landfill. No, what I asked, and the question I'm still addressing - which has yet to be reasonably answered - is for these characters, who care enough about a slave girl and the laws to buy her freedom, what would make this act of good enjoyably challenging?

Throwing down a handful of gold is awfully anti-climactic if the players have a lot at invested in the resolution. It's like bursting into the lair of the BBEG, armed, buffed, and shouting your declaration to end his reign - and the old wizard has a heart attack because you startled him. The means to solve a problem should match what's at stake, and the rules serve as a guideline to that end.

A good story does have verisimilitude - that is, events and conflicts that parallel what we expect life to be like, in a rewarding way. How do you know the slave's owner isn't ridiculously wealthy, and how do you know the price would be reasonable? How do you know the slave's owner wouldn't demand an exorbitant fee from adventurers physically encumbered by all their liquid assets? If this is a challenge that matters, it ought to be difficult to overcome - the same as freeing the girl might. So a flat number isn't the right answer to the question, because in this case, worth is directly proportional to what's at stake.

This, however, is a much better reasoning for an insignificant cost:

Yes, it would.

At first, they would feel like they did a good thing. The girl is happy, as she can now work for herself and actually get something out of her good work beside a "good job, slave" and a additional ration.

Then they will be informed that they are thousands of slaves into this city and that while the girl had a fairly easy time (translator...she wasn't wipe a lot, I can tell you), most slaves are treated like livestock.

While they can certainly free a few of them with their current wealth, it won't change the system as a whole : their money will be used by the former owners to buy other slaves, people will still be enslaved and that girl is even likely to become a slave owner if she is successful...or to be enslaved again if she isn't.

Unless they are willing to change the system, the adventurers have done nothing but satisfy their moral need for a "we are the good guys" sticker. If they don't try to defy the system, then they are but hypocrites. If they do, then it's happy fun time for the DM...

[Greenish]

No, what I asked, and the question I'm still addressing - which has yet to be reasonably answered - is for these characters, who care enough about a slave girl and the laws to buy her freedom, what would make this act of good enjoyably challenging?

The characters ought to be happy if they could just buy her for a few coins. The characters are not looking for a challenge in everything they do.

[Asheram]

I'd also have a closer look at how people Become slaves.

In the setting I'm currently playing in the few ways you can become a slave is either if you've done something illegal or owe someone money that you can't pay back. (As well as people being sold as slaves from foreign countries, but they still must have their papers in order)
My group currently busted the whole Slave Traders Guild due to the fact that we stumbled onto their plot on acquiring slaves illegally, i.e. just rounding beggars up in the cover of night.

[mucat]

The owners might also say "She's not for sale, but I have a job I need done. Accomplish such-and-such a task, and I'll sign her over to you." If you're in need of a quest/job hook, that is...

[Muz]

Thanks for the plethora of answers--this helps my thinking and plotting.

Just to toss a little more fuel onto the fire, I should also mention that this particular city is a drow city, and this particular slave is, also, a drow (lacking in a house, sold into slavery, etc.). The PCs are NOT drow, and found their way into the city via magical means. The fact that they're even in this particular bazaar indicates to those drow (and others) there that they belong there, or else they wouldn't have gotten that far in the first place. So they'll have to be verrrry very careful.

It could all go up in a massive explosion, figuratively speaking. (And obviously the question of letting a non-drow by a drow slave will be a touchy one.) All sorts of other problems, in fact--but I wanted to at least come up with an appropriate ballpark price.

[Asheram]

Thanks for the plethora of answers--this helps my thinking and plotting.

Just to toss a little more fuel onto the fire, I should also mention that this particular city is a drow city, and this particular slave is, also, a drow (lacking in a house, sold into slavery, etc.). The PCs are NOT drow, and found their way into the city via magical means. The fact that they're even in this particular bazaar indicates to those drow (and others) there that they belong there, or else they wouldn't have gotten that far in the first place. So they'll have to be verrrry very careful.

It could all go up in a massive explosion, figuratively speaking. (And obviously the question of letting a non-drow by a drow slave will be a touchy one.) All sorts of other problems, in fact--but I wanted to at least come up with an appropriate ballpark price.

Oh dear... You're quite right about that they could just refuse to sell them the slave. Drow might be cruel, but I really don't think they'd be ready to let some "lower standing races" have one of the "superior breed" as a slave if it wasn't for some extraordinarily cruel punishment.

One way, though, would be for them to either get a proxy to buy her for them (tough beans if she's a valuable slave which she seems to be), preferably by some higher ranking drow if that's available.
The other way would be to blackmail the drow, if not just strong-arming him into selling her, but strong-arming the drow could backfire and just draw the attention of the entire town down upon them.

[Muz]

One way, though, would be for them to either get a proxy to buy her for them (tough beans if she's a valuable slave which she seems to be), preferably by some higher ranking drow if that's available.
The other way would be to blackmail the drow, if not just strong-arming him into selling her, but strong-arming the drow could backfire and just draw the attention of the entire town down upon them.

*nod* As far as I'm concerned, figuring out the how of it is the party's problem. I just want to make sure I have the general financial value in mind in case I need it (and because I just know someone's going to ask for a gp figure at SOME point).

[Greenish]

I just want to make sure I have the general financial value in mind in case I need it (and because I just know someone's going to ask for a gp figure at SOME point).

Probably when they'll try to resell her.