[3.5] Tashalatora?

[Greymane]

I've seen the feat name flung around a bit. Apparently it mixes nicely with Psychic Warrior and Ardent in emulating the Monk (but better)? I don't own Secrets of Sarlona, so is there someone who could give me an idea of what this feat does, and a reason why, if any, I should love it?

[Eldariel]

It stacks most Monk abilities with a Psionic class of your choice. It's so awesome because it makes sense (Monks are all about meditation and mind over matter, which is precisely what Psionics is so Monk shoulda really been Psionic all along) and makes a Monk (that is, an unarmed masteR) that doesn't suck.

[Optimystik]

It's also online.

[Greymane]

Huh. Does it stack all monk abilities, or merely a select few? This feat sounds amazing.

Is it any good alongside a Psion, or is it best to just use it on Ardents and Psychic Warriors?

[Claudius Maximus]

It only stacks unarmed damage, AC bonus and Flurry of Blows if memory serves. It doesn't just gestalt you.

It works okay with Psion, especially if you have one of the feats that switch the Monk's abilities to key off intelligence. Ardent and Psiwar work much better with it though, since they have more HP and BAB and already work with wisdom.

[Optimystik]

It's very good with Psions provided you can get the Carmendine Monk or Kung-Fu Genius feats.

As had been said, though - Psywars and Ardents need no extra feats to start working with it.

[Doc Roc]

Monk/Ardent + Tash is pretty much the backbreaker for any argument regarding the positive worth of monk as a base class alone, and a superb argument in favor of the worth of Tash. Particularly in conjunction with Dominant Ideal and Mantle Substitution.

[Optimystik]

Even better - isn't Monastic Training (the prereq for Tash) a Monk bonus feat? So grabbing Tash barely hurts at all, even early on.

I'd go Buomman - Wis bonus, penalty is a dump stat, and the inability to speak doesn't mean jack when you're psionic Favored class: monk eliminates exp penalties.

Flavorwise, they are native to the Astral Plane, which is where psionic power comes from - explaining how they can blend the two disciplines.

[balistafreak]

Do you even need to be a Monk to pick up Monastic Training?

I was of the mind that you didn't. Be a straight Psionic Warrior/Ardent, then. It might hurt a bit feat wise, but it's surely better than losing Manifester levels.

[DragoonWraith]

Practiced Manifester means the only thing the Ardent loses is Power Points and putting off class features a couple of levels. Hardly back-breaking. But you are correct, you can take Tashalatora without any Monk levels, and you Manifester class levels will count as Monk levels for Unarmed Strike, Flurry, and AC, which is pretty awesome.

[Doc Roc]

You can, in fact, get in with Paladin 2+Tash/Ardent 18, presuming you're willing to use a monk's belt or similar, and your GM is somewhat permissive. As always in my experience, the best use of PHB monk includes no levels of it.

[DragoonWraith]

Why do you need the Paladin levels?

[Lycanthromancer]

Why do you need the Paladin levels?

Tasty Cha to saving throws?

[Doc Roc]

A mistake on my part, actually. I thought monastic training required either monk or paladin. How... liberating!

[strider24seven]

But then you need a DM lenient enough to let you use items to boost your monk level to qualify you for the feat.

And then you need a DM nice enough to not screw you over by taking your items away every battle.

But really, Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 18 is what the Monk should have been.

And Monk 2/Psion 18 with Carmendine Monk is fun. If you can get Monastic Training to apply to Psionic PrC's that progress your Psionic base class, then it gets even more ridiculous.

And you can do the stupidly powerful Monk 2/Half-Orc Paragon 3/War Mind 10/Bear Warrior 5.

Or just Monk 10/Any Psionic PrC that advances unarmed damage. Stack a monk's belt and size increase for extra oomph. But that's just asking the DM for crackers to go with your cheese.

[Keld Denar]

Do note that especially for Ardents, the 2 levels of Monk are a decent deal. Lots of bonus feats (one of which you can spend on Monastic Training) and Evasion isn't too bad, especially if you swap it for the Ray Reflection in Complete Mage, as you'll have a decent Touch AC with Inertial Armor + Force Screen + Wisdom + 1/5 levels.

Tashalatorans make the best grapplers too, damage output wise. Since grapple damage is UAS damage, even if you have natural weapons to otherwise put to use, you want your UAS damage to be high, on top of your grapple bonus. Tashalatora gives you monk UAS progression, Expansion to augement your grapple bonus significantly, and even things like Grip of Iron to make up for the loss of BAB while grappling. Half Giant's make excellent Tashalatoran grapplers due to the size bonus from Powerful Build and the racial Str bonus.

EDIT:

Or just Monk 10/Any Psionic PrC that advances unarmed damage. Stack a monk's belt and size increase for extra oomph. But that's just asking the DM for crackers to go with your cheese.

Too many monk levels....

[Lycanthromancer]

Too many monk levels....

Given monk's belts and Talashtora, one level is too many.

Save for saves.

[The Cat Goddess]

Or just Monk 10/Any Psionic PrC that advances unarmed damage. Stack a monk's belt and size increase for extra oomph. But that's just asking the DM for crackers to go with your cheese.

Okay, I need the cheese... are there any such PrCs out there? Official, preferably, over Homebrew.

[DragoonWraith]

But then you need a DM lenient enough to let you use items to boost your monk level to qualify you for the feat.

No you don't. Monastic Training does not require any Monk levels or Monk-specific class features, nor does Tashalatora. You literally can take those two no matter what class you are.

And then you need a DM nice enough to not screw you over by taking your items away every battle.

As above, wouldn't matter.

But really, Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 18 is what the Monk should have been.

Yes.

And Monk 2/Psion 18 with Carmendine Monk is fun. If you can get Monastic Training to apply to Psionic PrC's that progress your Psionic base class, then it gets even more ridiculous.

And you can do the stupidly powerful Monk 2/Half-Orc Paragon 3/War Mind 10/Bear Warrior 5.

Neither of these is "ridiculous" or "stupidly powerful"....

Or just Monk 10/Any Psionic PrC that advances unarmed damage. Stack a monk's belt and size increase for extra oomph. But that's just asking the DM for crackers to go with your cheese.

What? How? There's nothing even remotely cheesy about that that I can see.

[Doc Roc]

Well, I mean, anything with 18 psion levels isn't going to be weak, neh? :)

[DragoonWraith]

Well, absolutely true, but really Psion 20's probably stronger. Tashalatora Carmendine Monk is just more interesting.

[The Cat Goddess]

What? How? There's nothing even remotely cheesy about that that I can see.

Okay, look at it like this:

10 levels of Monk.
10 levels of PrC that advances Monk (and is a Psionic class).
Tashalatora for the PrC.
PrC now (thanks to the Feat) again advances Monk.

Character, at level 20, now has unarmed damage of level 30 Monk... if such a thing exists. I don't recall the Epic progression...

[DragoonWraith]

That wouldn't work. Tashalatora would make the class advance UAS damage. The class already does that. The two wouldn't stack.

[Keld Denar]

Save for saves.

And the bonus feats! Monk2 is actually pretty frontloaded as far as abilities go! Monk as a class does not progress past 2 though, as the return on investment is...not good.

[Akal Saris]

True, but it's a good 2 levels for so many builds, especially once you add in the variant bonus feats like Cobra Strike monk :D