Party Balance 3.5

[Project_Mayhem]

OK - I'm running Ravenloft for a group of six in a few weeks, and I just got the initial rough character concepts off the players. Mechanically we have, at level 6:

Druid, probably elf

Human Cleric

Elf Swordsage

Warforged Crusader

Rogue, race not decided

Human Wizard.

The druid and the swordsage both have no experience with dnd. Characters are going to be made with me supervising and helping. I'm just checking what level of optimisation is going to be needed to balance things out. I figure that the rogue will probably need the most tricking out to catch up. I was planning on encouraging the two ToB classes to just play straight out of the box as it were. I don't know if I should tone the others down or not. I know the cleric wants to focus on melee with buffs, but I'm not sure if DMM is going to be op. Any advice?

[CockroachTeaParty]

The only one that concerns me is the rogue. You might want to point him to alternate class features or feats that will give him more options with his sneak attack when he inevitably faces off against the undead. Also, he should ask casters to prepare spells such as Gravestrike.

[Tinydwarfman]

The only one that concerns me is the rogue. You might want to point him to alternate class features or feats that will give him more options with his sneak attack when he inevitably faces off against the undead. Also, he should ask casters to prepare spells such as Gravestrike.

I agree. I think you should let him play the pathfinder rogue, and probably direct him towards some good feats (like craven or savvy rogue)

[sofawall]

Also, he should ask casters to prepare spells such as Gravestrike.

Aren't those Range: Personal?

[Pluto]

I know the cleric wants to focus on melee with buffs, but I'm not sure if DMM is going to be op. Any advice?

If he's in Ravenloft, Turn Attempts are a valuable commodity. I'd let him burn them for DMM, if that's his thing (but I'd give a pointed disproving look because DMM builds are boring).

I wouldn't let Nightsticks stack though, even without DMM. Because that's silly and Turn Attempts are worth something.

And, like Cockroach says, be sure the Rogue gets Penetrating Strike (from Dungeonscape, Expedition to Castle Ravenloft). He won't be useless without it, but it's a solid crutch if he needs to generate some damage.

[Tinydwarfman]

If he's in Ravenloft, Turn Attempts are a valuable commodity. I'd let him burn them for DMM, if that's his thing (but I'd give a pointed disproving look because DMM builds are boring).

Nah man, DMM: Quicken is pretty awesome. But persist can pretty dull, yeah.

[Project_Mayhem]

So what does the PF rogue do differently? I was planning on basically giving him sneak attack vs undead for free. I'm using the Lightbringers as a hook, and it just seems stupid that someone who has specifically trained to hunt something wouldn't know the best places to hit it.

Also, Nightsticks stacking is ridiculous anyway.

[Greenish]

So what does the PF rogue do differently?

Rogue talents come in two tiers, with latter being stronger. They can Sneak Attack undead. They have an actual capstone. They can be found here.

[Emmerask]

Druid is a really really hard class for a d&d noobie, I would guess that he(she) or the rogue will be the weakest link in the party though the rogue only has to learn how to flank properly while the druid has to learn a ton of things ^^

On top of that having a new player run a druid is pretty annoying during combat, they (you in the end ) have to keep track of the attacks and modifiers in different forms, for the companion and for the summons... did it once and the player thankfully changed to an easier class soon

[Ferrin]

If you want to make it easier for the druid player you could use the Shapeshifter ACF from PH2 which replaces your animal companion and wild shape with the ability to change shape at will with a set bonus to your own stats instead of replacing them. Also the Spontaneous Divine Spellcaster Variant from Unearthed Arcana which is a lot easier then preparing spells. Hence this also makes the druid less powerfull overall.

[QuantumSteve]

As far as Craven goes, I don't know if gimping your fear save is a good idea in Ravenloft.

[Project_Mayhem]

Well, the rogue is our regular DM - I know he's played a lot of Dnd in the past, so he shouldn't really have a problem with strategy. I'd forgotten about the shapeshifter druid actually - might be a good idea.