1st time Rogue

[Zach J.]

In the next game I'm playing in I'll be running an elf rogue named Titus Androgynous (It's a bad pun I know, but I had originally designed the character for a Hackmaster game). I don't normally play skill-heavy characters so I was just wondering what sort of skills would be best for a thief.

I don't know how we'll generate stats so I'm just using the elite array at the moment.

Str 10, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 13

So far I've given him the skills Climb, Disable Device, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Spot and Tumble.

His feat is Two-Weapon Fighting (He uses twin daggers).

Any suggestions?

[Greenish]

Use Magic Device is the strongest skill rogues have. Climb and Jump probably aren't worth investing in much.

And for the love of gods, get more constitution, you're melee combatant with light armour and d6 hitdice!

[PId6]

Use Magic Device is the strongest skill rogues have in the game.

Fixed.

Definitely get UMD in place of Jump/Climb. If you can, social skills are nice as well, but depending on group, they may not be necessary. Open Lock isn't that needed unless you're starting at really low level, since a Chime of Opening or a wizard with Knock can do it much better.

[Zach J.]

The other two members of the party will be a human fighter and a human bard. The bard's player is still pretty new, but I assume she'll be focusing on social skills. We're all starting at 1st level.

[Eldariel]

The other two members of the party will be a human fighter and a human bard. The bard's player is still pretty new, but I assume she'll be focusing on social skills. We're all starting at 1st level.

Reconsider your Elvenhood. Halfling would work so much better. The Elven Con-penalty just really punishes an already-low-HP class that's going to be in melee. If anything, I'd consider Gnome for the 16 Con. Though 20' movement speed of course sucks.

Whisper Gnome [Races of Stone] would be a rather good idea; Con & Dex bonus (Str & Cha penalty), 30' movement speed, Darkvision. But if that's not available, I'd go (Water or Strongheart [PGtF]) Halfling or Gnome. Elf just...well, melee Rogue can't survive with less than 16 Con. Period. You just get too little HP. That at least puts you up to par with average 14 Con Rangers, who tend to be quite survivable, and the rare 10 Con Barbarian.


And yeah, what they say about skills. I'd say in order of importance they go something like:
- Use Magic Device
- Hide/Move Silently
- Search/Disable Device/Sleight of Hand
- Tumble
- Either the Diplo/Gather/Bluff/Intimidate/K: Local kit or the Spot/Listen/Sense Motive kit, depending on your stats. Both would be optimal, of course.
- Singular ranks in some Knowledges, Forgery, Appraise, etc. Things you want Trained to roll.

[Dairun Cates]

If you're going to have a 13 charisma, you might want to put it to use and take either bluff or diplomacy. Some people may say they're not worth much, but bluff is required for feinting and re-hiding in combat, and diplomacy... well, a good diplomacy check can solve entire encounters when used by a clever role-player.

Otherwise, if you want to mostly do tons of damage, put it in con. You'll need the HP and fort saves.

For the most part though, skills are what you make of them. Think about what YOU'LL use in most situations and stick with it. Most of the rogue skills are entirely viable as skill choices.

[Greenish]

Reconsider your Elvenhood. Halfling would work so much better. The Elven Con-penalty just really punishes an already-low-HP class that's going to be in melee. If anything, I'd consider Gnome for the 16 Con. Though 20' movement speed of course sucks.

Whisper Gnome [Races of Stone] would be a rather good idea; Con & Dex bonus (Str & Cha penalty), 30' movement speed, Darkvision.

Whisper gnomes can be found from the web excerpt of RoS. They make lovely rogues, and more importantly, don't cause cancer like elves.

If your DM isn't opposed to the idea of using your smarts, Forgery makes a decent skill, since it's opposed by Forgery checks (and who has forgery skill?).

Bluff allows you to lie to individuals - Forgery is how you lie to nations.

[Jane_Smith]

WO WO WO, i keep hearing people say put ranks in umd? Heres a quick tidbit of info for you - HOLD OFF on those ranks until level 3-5 when you -actually- have some magic items to use it on.

UMD at level 1-2 is almost completely useless due to the fact you aint got crap to use it on. Your better off with climb/jump for now just for mobility to stay alive to the point you -do- get magic items.

[Eldariel]

Whisper gnomes can be found from the web excerpt of RoS. They make lovely rogues, and more importantly, don't cause cancer like elves.

They aren't very lovely, but make for fine Rogues. Elves make for lovely Rogues, but aren't quite as competent. It's a real pity there's no Con-bonus Elf subrace; kinda strange too given there's one for everything else.

...but with that bit of racial politics out of the way, yeah, Core Elves are...no Tolkien Elves, to be sure. You really don't want to lose Con if it wasn't emphasized enough.

[avr]

Find out if your GM is happy about allowing flasks of acid or whatever to use precision damage. You won't have the money at the start, but it's a neat trick later if it's legal in your game.

[Kurald Galain]

Use Magic Device is the strongest skill rogues have. Climb and Jump probably aren't worth investing in much.

Sure, but at low levels UMD is really pointless to invest in (first because you won't have that many magical items yet, and second because you need to be able to hit DC 20 rather reliably, and at low levels that's just not feasible).

Also at low levels, four ranks in climb are very useful. Just don't keep putting points into it every levelup.