Spell Level [3.5]

[Temotei]

What level would a spell be if it worked like enlarge person, but the growth was slower and unstopping?

For example, if the spell caused the target creature to grow one size category larger every three rounds with a maximum size category of Colossal, what would be the estimated spell level?

What if you added an additional bonus, such as a +1 Strength bonus every round?

[Prodan]

What's the duration?

[Temotei]

What's the duration?

Let's say 1 round/level.

[Divide by Zero]

L-e-v-e-l.

[Prodan]

Let's say 1 round/level.

Around level 7 possibly.

[holywhippet]

So, less duration than enlarge person but it takes you to a larger size? You get slightly more strength for each enlargement though - but you'd be a sitting duck with the AC penalties and have the cumulative attack bonus penalties.

I'd be tempted to say level 2 or level 3.

[pinwiz]

L-e-v-e-l.

I was fighting the urge to do this. Now I feel better that someone else did it for me.

[Mystic Muse]

L-e-v-e-l.

But fighters can't take spell levels.

[Temotei]

L-e-v-e-l.

Whoo!

Hmm...nice discrepancy here. We've got one who says 7th level and another saying 2nd or 3rd level. I'm leaning toward the lower end, myself, like around 3rd or 4th... I'm not sure though, and that's why I'm asking.

Any more input?

[Milskidasith]

Since you can't grow much without a higher caster level, and expansion is a first level power and lets you grow two size categories... I'd say around fourth level, just because colossal size is absurd (grappling and other special combat maneuvers are basically "I win" though the slowness of growth makes it hard to actually use in combat).

[arguskos]

I'd likely say 3rd or 4th. It's a powerful effect, probably in line with Polymorph in some respects. As that's the closest cousin I can think of to the effect, I'd place it at 4th level.

[Prodan]

Since you can't grow much without a higher caster level

You can extend the effect.

[Temotei]

Oh, and look at that. Nice. Right before I finished my editing.

You can extend the effect.

True, but at the same time, it takes many rounds. After three rounds, a human is Large size. It'll take three more to get to Huge, another three to get to Gargantuan, and another three to get to Colossal. That's three + three + three + three = twelve rounds. Most encounters end before twelve rounds are up, although it's very possible they could come and go.

[Milskidasith]

You can extend the effect.

Which puts it at a higher spell level, which, depending on the way you look at it, either eliminates the need for extend (since you now have the caster level for three size growths anyway), or puts it at the spell level it would need to be for getting so many size increases. Either way, it works.

EDIT: This spell should not be persistable, for obvious reasons. See the "grains of rice" story... every 18 seconds, he doubles in size. By the end of the day, he's kicking galaxies (and having a strength score along the lines of things that can only bench press a couple thousand pounds, which is weird).

[Prodan]

Which puts it at a higher spell level

Higher slot, not spell level.

which, depending on the way you look at it, either eliminates the need for extend (since you now have the caster level for three size growths anyway), or puts it at the spell level it would need to be for getting so many size increases. Either way, it works.

What about rods?

[Milskidasith]

Higher slot, not spell level.

Still requires you to be able to cast them.

What about rods?

If a seventh level character buys a rod of extend using 11k of his wealth by level, or spends feats for metamagic reducers, just to extend a spell to get benefits that are hard to time, then honestly, it's still a fourth level spell. At that point he could be a cleric DMM persisting two spells a day, so spending a lot of wealth by level for a comparatively crappy effect is reasonable.

[Temotei]

Higher slot, not spell level.
What about rods?

Psh. Slot, level, toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe.

[Milskidasith]

Psh. Slot, level, toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe.

Well, for PrC qualifications, spell level and slot are different, though that's broken with sanctum spell and versatile spellcasting.

[Runestar]

If we assume the fighter is buffed with said spell just prior to combat or in the 1st round, he is large for 3 rounds, then huge for the next 3 rounds. Considering the average fight lasts for 3-5 rounds, this is as big as he gets. This spell is little better than your normal enlarge person spell.

If the spell lasts long enough and the wizard times it just right so he enters combat as huge (or even garguantuan), it might be stronger (especially with the obscene reach).

I think it is too variable to pin down to a single definitive spell level, since you get different mileage depending on far you are willing to go to optimize it. Giant size is a 7th lv spell though, and its collossal size also comes with a whooping +32str, so this spell shouldn't be higher than 4-5th lv tops.

I would pin it at maybe 3rd, perhaps 4th lv, with the in-built assumption that the party will go to lengths to maximize the use of this spell, possibly even find some means of abusing it.

[Temotei]

Well, for PrC qualifications, spell level and slot are different, though that's broken with sanctum spell and versatile spellcasting.

Dang. You have the mind's eye of...something.

You see things I don't in D&D.

Anyway, 4th level sounds about right. Persist, I agree, would be extremely broken.

I would pin it at maybe 3rd, perhaps 4th lv, with the in-built assumption that the party will go to lengths to maximize the use of this spell, possibly even find some means of abusing it.

Divinations and scouting do wonders for that sort of thing.

[Milskidasith]

Dang. You have the mind's eye of...something.

You see things I don't in D&D.

Anyway, 4th level sounds about right. Persist, I agree, would be extremely broken.

Well, that's mostly due to broken stuff that's largely banned, and it's not like I figured it out, I've just read up on it from seeing TO builds.

[arguskos]

Well, that's mostly due to broken stuff that's largely banned, and it's not like I figured it out, I've just read up on it from seeing TO builds.

Amen. I do that too, and is typically how I learn most of my trickery and whatnot. It's tough to find new tricks anymore.

[Temotei]

Amen. I do that too, and is typically how I learn most of my trickery and whatnot. It's tough to find new tricks anymore.

You old dog.

[Milskidasith]

Amen. I do that too, and is typically how I learn most of my trickery and whatnot. It's tough to find new tricks anymore.

You know what they say: You can't teach an old game...



New tricks.

YEAAAAAAAHHHHHHH! Also, blame it being nearly 1 a.m. here. I have to do something to stave off sleep.

[Temotei]

You know what they say: You can't teach an old game...



New tricks.

YEAAAAAAAHHHHHHH! Also, blame it being nearly 1 a.m. here. I have to do something to stave off sleep.

Excellent.

[stenver]

Cleric with persistent spell would love this, no matter the levol.

[Runestar]

If the spell can be cast on others (otherwise, it would be useless), then it cannot be persisted.

Besides, clerics are better off just replicating giant size via miracle.

[Roderick_BR]

Hmm. Call it Improved Enlarge Person and make it a 3rd level spell, the same way Magic Weapon and Improved Magic Weapon works.

[arguskos]

You old dog.

Between the three of us (you, me, and Milskidasith), this thread is made of delicious win. Just saying.

Also, level 3 or 4 is probably ideal. I personally pull for level 4, since, well, it's fairly similar to Polymorph, and should probably be on the same level.

[PId6]

If the spell can be cast on others (otherwise, it would be useless), then it cannot be persisted.

If it's touch range, it's debatable whether you can Persist it. Even if you can't, Reach Spell lets you do it anyway. And if it's targeted or ray, just use Ocular Spell.

Besides, clerics are better off just replicating giant size via miracle.

Miracle is a 9th level spell. This is almost certainly far lower. The difference can be up to 10 levels.