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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Best Gestalt Combinations?

    Oke guys,

    I have one question I need the best Gestalt build there is with as basis the following rules:

    All official WoTC books 3.5 allowed except the BoED and BoVD.

    And the character must be generated with 32 point buy.

    Allready my thanks for your help,

    Duskranger.
    “Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
    The frumious Bandersnatch!”

    Lewis Carroll

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    It's funny that I'm seeing this more and more on here. Here's a great link I just found to help some friends come up with ideas for their characters. http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...u_to_know?pg=1

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mikeejimbo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    It's actually not optimal, but I've always wanted to play a Wizard/Archivist.

    (It suffers from action economy and such, and could probably be beefed up a bit.)
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    There are dozen of possible answers, all based on how much cheese you're willing to put up with and what sort of play-style you've got. Give us some more details so we can build with some sort of direction...

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    No Flaws or traits

    Complete build, with abilities please. As cheesyness, not too cheesy bit of cheese is allowed.

    No LA or templates.

    It must be quite high in opti-fu.

    It starts at lvl 1 by the way, even though I would like to see the complete build I will not be able to use it as for now (unless I convince the guy to start from lvl 5 off course).

    I'm honestly more of a straight head first into combat guy, but am planning to play it safe and good. So that's why I need your help.
    “Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
    The frumious Bandersnatch!”

    Lewis Carroll

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Random NPC's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    Mix a class with good active abilities, mix a class with good passive abilities

    try to find synergy in a stat or two, try to find a way for one class compensate the other.

    Bingo


    in other words, you are asking for something so general it's actually a bit hard to go wrong
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    IMO, the "best" gestalt combos are those that combine classes that depend on the same ability scores. A Wizard needs a high Int & a decent Con, & so does a Psion, so a Wiz/Psi would be a good combo. A Rogue needs a high Dex & a decent Int, while a Factotum needs a high Int & a decent Dex, so a Rog/Fac is an okay combo. A Barbarian needs a high Str & a decent Con, while a Cleric needs a high Wis & a decent Cha (or Con), so that would make a bad combo. IMO, of course.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    There's the Monk//Druid, which covers the weaknesses of the Monk with the awesomeness of the Druid, while making the awesomeness of the Druid more awesome with the abilities of the Monk. Pretty SAD on just Wisdom (though Con is good, too, since it'll boost your HP), moves lightning-fast, and uses Wild Shape to turn into a kung-fu panda.

    If playing by alignment restrictions, you'd have to be Lawful Neutral, though, so if that's a turnoff...

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Random NPC's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    IMO, the "best" gestalt combos are those that combine classes that depend on the same ability scores. A Wizard needs a high Int & a decent Con, & so does a Psion, so a Wiz/Psi would be a good combo. A Rogue needs a high Dex & a decent Int, while a Factotum needs a high Int & a decent Dex, so a Rog/Fac is an okay combo. A Barbarian needs a high Str & a decent Con, while a Cleric needs a high Wis & a decent Cha (or Con), so that would make a bad combo. IMO, of course.
    Strangely enough, I would go Wizard/Factotum and Psion/Rogue. Or maybe just Int-Caster/Factotum.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    Well, keeping to minimum cheese, I'd say something like:

    Ogre (savage species) 6/Barbarian 1/War Hulk 10/x 3

    with a straight Psychic Warrior 20.

    Use the Lion Spirit Totem from Complete Champion on the Barbarian level to get Pounce, and for feats you'll want Power Attack, Leap Attack, etc (find any ubercharger build on these board for an idea of stuff you're looking for).

    For moderate cheese, make that "x" a Hulking Hurler. Your damage goes up pretty quickly, essentially becoming capped by the largest, heaviest thing around.

    Of course there's always something simpler like a

    Warblade 20|Psychic Warrior 20

    Where you use the PsyWar to get uber-tons of passives for your maneuvers to love. Not nearly as powerful as the first build, but easier to wrap one's head around.


    Of course you can always combine the non-PsyWar elements of both of the above. For non-caster optimization most stuff boils down to ubercharger builds or martial adepts (or both). So you're best off searching for such builds on these boards and combining your favorite aspects of each.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Eternal Drifter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    I've never played Gestalt before, but there's one class combination I've been iching to try: Monk//Fighter

    The Monk has gotten the short end of the combat stick so often on the forums, much like the Fighter. The fact that once you stop taking Monk levels, you can't go back and take more really throws a wench in my plans.

    However... in Gestalt, take both classes, and you have a good character in theory. Good with all weapons, moderate skills, and a lot of feats.

    Be a Kobold, however, and focus your feats and skills in the right directions... and then start taking levels in The Initiatite of the Draconic Mysteries (Draconicon) instead of Fighter and you really gain power. More power than you would expect a mere Kobold to have!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    Along with your avatar, your class is the bard.
    Indeed it is, now that I think about it. Bard in the Playground

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    Retired Werewolfer

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Gnorman's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    IMO, the "best" gestalt combos are those that combine classes that depend on the same ability scores. A Wizard needs a high Int & a decent Con, & so does a Psion, so a Wiz/Psi would be a good combo. A Rogue needs a high Dex & a decent Int, while a Factotum needs a high Int & a decent Dex, so a Rog/Fac is an okay combo. A Barbarian needs a high Str & a decent Con, while a Cleric needs a high Wis & a decent Cha (or Con), so that would make a bad combo. IMO, of course.
    I must respectfully disagree with some of the points here. Wiz/Psi would not be a great combo (outside of massive Synchronicity/Hustle/Schism abuse).

    Two main gestalt rules that should always be considered:

    1. It's the (action) economy, stupid!

    Meaning that no matter how many spells you get by being a Sorc/Favored Soul (or any other dual casting combination), you still get the same number of actions as a non gestalt character. So you want the ability to abuse the action economy somehow. Factotum is a prime example of this.

    2. One side active, one side passive

    Because of rule #1, having one side of the gestalt give you a lot of passive benefits is actually quite helpful. Try to find classes that shore up weaknesses in your active side - a Wizard has two weak saves, poor BAB, and few skills. Oddly enough, gestalting one with a Ranger shores up all of those problems (not that I highly recommend that combo, as it adds MAD). Monk actually becomes tolerable.

    Some of my favorite combos:

    Wizard//Factotum
    Warblade//Psion
    Monk//Ardent
    Cloistered Cleric//Paladin variant with the Serenity feat
    Monk (or Ninja)//Druid
    Last edited by Gnorman; 2010-05-20 at 06:00 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eternal Drifter View Post
    ...really throws a wench in my plans...
    This is totally becoming a colloquialism for the next character I play...

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    IonDragon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    I think a really cool one would be:

    Druid//Monk (1-2), Barbarian (1), Rogue (a few)

    But you'd have to get your GM to hand wave alignment restrictions though, and I don't know if it's really optimal. It damn sure would be fun. Alternatively throw in more Barbarian or Fighter for BAB.
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  15. - Top - End - #15
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    Dr.Epic's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    I think these would be pretty powerful:

    fighter/cleric
    fighter/sorcerer
    cleric/sorcerer

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    I had tremendous success with a gestalt Knight/Dragon Shaman. Liberal use of Races of the Dragon and Dragon magic for draconic variants (like dragonscale husk) made for a useful and fun tank.

    A "Best combo" usually usually involves some sort of caster though. If you like Psionics then an Ardent/PsyWarrior could be neat. 3/4 BAB and wisdom as the casting stat for both classes.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ramza00's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    If you know how to build it, Wizard/Psion, Cleric/Ardent, or Druid/Ardent are some of the most powerful builds out there. Due to some psionics powers adding to the total number of actions you can do per round.

    Level 1

    Synchronicity (Complete Psionic p103): Ready an action and use it when you choose.

    At first glance this doesn't seem like a good power, you lose a standard action to cast this power but gain a standard action in response (no net gain or loss with the exception of you losing 1 pp). That is wrong, THIS IS AN AWESOME POWER, for when combine with other powers/feats you gain additional standard actions. For example if you use Linked Power with it you can cast your Main Power X and next round you get a free standard action to cast another Power Y and all you needed was the linked power feat and 1pp above what Main Power X cost. Or you can use a metamagic rod of quicken to cast this power as a swift action (and since Synchronicity is a 1st level power the rod is damn cheap.)

    Level 3

    Sense Danger (Magic of Eberron p106): Retain Dex bonus to AC when flat-footed, and manifest another power as an immediate action during first round of combat.

    This is psionic foresight and contingency (with steroids) all rolled up in one, You cast this power which has duration of 10 mins/level. During that duration you are not treated as not having your dex modifer at the beginning of combat. Furthermore you can cast a power with power point cost of 1pp or more if you augment it. Guess what awesome power is 1pp, Synchronicity. Guess what Synchronicity does for 1pp you get to cast any other power you know that has a manifesting time of 1 standard action. In other words you always get to act first (when under the duration of Sense Danger). Oh it gets even more nasty, as soon as you use your readied action which Synchronicity provides you are no longer flat footed for you have acted in combat. Thus you can now use Anticipatory Strike (blowing another immediate action, thus you don't get one the next round of combat), and have a full round of actions before your enemy gets to act. Finally under transparency an incantatrix could use Metamagic Effect to make this power last all day under persistent spell (since the power doesn't discharge)

    Level 4

    Schism: Your partitioned mind can manifest lower level powers.

    More actions are good. When your second mind can manifest a power have it choose Synchronicity, thus your main mind now manifests the power and thus you can use your full manifester level with schism.

    Level 5

    Anticipatory Strike (Complete Psionic p78): Take your action out of initiative order.

    Some people call this psionic celerity. As an immediate action you can move your initiative out of order (but only once a round). Only downside is that you can't be flat footed, well foresight or the more awesome psionic power sense danger fixes that. So for 9 power points and an immediate action you get to act immediately (with no downsides like being dazed). Remember you can combine this with Sense Danger+ Synchronicity during the first round of combat.

    Level 6

    Temporal Acceleration A: Your time frame accelerates for 1 round.

    Psionic Timestop, enough said

    http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...um=9#410128229
    Consider this level 9 build

    *Illuminan race with Naen Hoon sigils (allow you to use turn attempts to power metamagic)
    *Transformation Domain, Free Domain, and Knowledge Domain
    *Spontaneous Transformation Domain
    *Mantles are Time, Magic, Fate, Mental Power, and one free
    *You add Synchronicity to the Time Mantle, You add Sense Danger to the Fate Mantle, and You Add Schism to the Mental Power Mantle. This is legal see here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a

    Feats
    1 Extend Spell
    3 Persistent Spell
    6 Linked Power
    9 Assume Supernatural Ability (Choker's Quickness)


    Due to the Magic Mantle you powers are treated as spells. Allowing you to use Naenhoon to persist two very important powers, Sense Danger (you know always go first), and Schism (you now get a free standard action per round. Schism combine with Synchronicity means your partioned mind passes his turn to the main mind who uses his full manifester level.

    During the surprise round of combat you change into the form of a choaker. Due to assume supernatural ability feat (or you can sub metamorphic transfer), you can now use the choker's supernatural quickness ability. You nowgain an extra standard action per round, and you still have an extra 2 standard actions during the surprise round due to persistent schism+synchronicity and the choker's supernatural quickness.
    -----------------------------------
    Always go first, 2 standard actions during a surprise round, followed by 3 standard actions after the surprise round.

    Your level 12 feat is psicrystal affinity, your psicrystal gains feats, have his 12th level feat be martial study and pick up white raven's tactics. You get an extra round of 3 more actions due to your psicrystal.
    -----------------------------------
    Of course don't piss off your DM too much: smallwink: or he will do the same thing to you. Having a bbeg always go first, and having 2 standard actions in a surprise round is the equivalent of rocks fall, but without the DM saying you lose.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    My personal favorite: Monk 20//Wizard/X Arcane Caster Prestige Classes.

    Take Carmendine Monk feat to be truly SAD.

    Have all the formidable defenses of the Monk (passive abilities--some of the best in the game, for my money) with the offensive powerhouse that is the Wizard (best active abilities in the game, as far as I'm concerned).

    Cleric//Monk is also very powerful, due to the Wisdom synergy, but I'm not much of a Divine Magic fan.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    IonDragon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaelos View Post
    Cleric//Monk is also very powerful, due to the Wisdom synergy, but I'm not much of a Divine Magic fan.
    Except that you don't get Monk AC boost when armored, so there's not really any synergy there, and you can get that from a one level dip. The Monk's Spell Resistance doesn't come up until level 13, and the spell Spell Resistance is more powerful, and available at level 9. The Monk capstone ability's primary benefit is making you succeptible to Banishment. Admittedly you get good saves, but Cleric already has good Fort and Will, so Rogue would get you good Ref as well as skills and Sneak Attack.
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  20. - Top - End - #20
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    I once played a bard/warblade. Insanely fun, most self aggrandizing character I've ever played.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    I haven't looked at my 3.5 books in awhile, but I've always wanted to try a Beguiler/Ranger. Unfortunately, there really isn't any synergy with the stats.
    Last edited by Lord Vampyre; 2010-05-20 at 07:30 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    My money is on Factotum//Wizard. It lets you wreck the action economy of the game, much to your DM's dismay.

    If you can convince your DM that the various alignment restrictions will fly, you can also have a pile of fun with Cleric (using Dynamic Priest) / Malconvoker // Bard. You end up with an absurdly strong summoner that will buff his summons into extremely powerful challenges.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    If you're interested in a melee badass, i'd pick a ToB class and then another class that could mesh well with it. Crusader/Cleric , Warblade/Factotum Warblade/Archivist , Warblade/Wizard , Swordsage/Cloistered Cleric , Swordsage/Any Wisdom based caster

    the lists go on and on.

    if you want pure melee then grab Warblade or Swordsage and Fighter for bonus feats.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Physics_Rook's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    A little known but very cool combination would be a gestalt with a Magic of Incarnum class.

    Given that a good Constitution score is going to be a given no matter what class you settle on, you know that a MoI class always has a good chance of lowering your M.ultiple A.ttribute D.ependancy (it took me forever to figure out what MAD stood for).

    In addition, many of the benefits of MoI classes are passive (just shaping the base soulmeld can give you a boost), plus you can shift around which of its benefits is the most powerful (via reallocation of essentia).

    If you used it as a passive class, and focused your feats on your primary class, you could nab some really neat special bonuses and special abilities.

    Just think of the neat RP moments you could have if you went Factotum // Totemist, the Beast Scholar!

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    There's the Monk//Druid, which covers the weaknesses of the Monk with the awesomeness of the Druid, while making the awesomeness of the Druid more awesome with the abilities of the Monk. Pretty SAD on just Wisdom (though Con is good, too, since it'll boost your HP), moves lightning-fast, and uses Wild Shape to turn into a kung-fu panda.
    I'm a fan of this one as well. Monk may be the weakest of the core classes, but compliments other classes well in gestalt. Druid is particularly potent, as you retain your Wisdom to AC, increased speed, ki strike, and ability to Flurry while wild shaped.

    Also had some fun with a druid//ninja.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    Joining in with those who recommend ToB/synergy class as among the best combos:
    Barbarian//Swordsage is a favorite of mine
    Warblade//Psion and/or Crusader//Wilder are also nice
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    Baldric Sea Campaign Setting (work in progress)
    later version of the Sea Dog base class from it

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    Savage species is not available, it's 3.0. The further ideas do not really give me an ultra powerfull build and such.On the other hand I agfree with some of them.
    “Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
    The frumious Bandersnatch!”

    Lewis Carroll

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Critical's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    Hmmm, Wizard 5/Swiftblade 10/Abjurant Champion 5//Warblade 7/Factotum 3/Eternal Blade 10 is a solid, pretty much Int SAD build. If there are no multiclass penalties, use gray elf, if there are - half-elf.
    Awesome Bleachatar by Terry576.

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    Levethix the Dray Arcane Swordsage from the harsh world of Dark Sun.


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  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    And the books you got them from Critical?
    “Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
    The frumious Bandersnatch!”

    Lewis Carroll

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Critical's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best Gestalt Combinations?

    Swiftlade is online-only, Abjurant Champion is from Complete Mage, Factotum's from Dungeonscape, Warblade and Eternal Blade are from Tome of Battle. Though, if you want 9 level spells by level 20, then go Swiftblade 9 instead of 10.
    Last edited by Critical; 2010-05-21 at 02:23 AM.
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