[4e] Can a Fighter dump WIS?

[Faleldir]

It's the same problem in every edition: a class gets Intimidate, but never has the CHA to use it. Now that Combat Agility is an option, I'd like to play a Fighter with 8 WIS and 14 CHA. I'm thinking of using a Warforged with a modified Tank 3.0 build. Is this possible?

[Yorrin]

Disclaimer: I haven't looked at 4e in about a year. That being said, I recall that Fighters require Wis for AOs, increasing their stickiness. Some versions of a fighter actually care about this, some don't. But it's generally not advised to dump it entirely unless you're swapping out that class feature.

[demidracolich]

Tempest fighters and guardian fighters both need high wis.

[Faleldir]

But it's generally not advised to dump it entirely unless you're swapping out that class feature.

I am swapping it out.

Tempest fighters and guardian fighters both need high wis.

Good thing I'm not using either of those.

[NMBLNG]

Some paragon paths and (I think) some fighter powers get a bonus from wisdom. Your get a bonus to OAs equal to your wisdom modifier. I'm not aware of any builds that let you swap that feature out, but if you found one more power to you.

I think a few feats depend on wisdom too.

So a fighter can ignore wisdom, just make sure that what you want later doesn't depend on it.

[Touchy]

If I remember correctly, there is a feat that allows a half-orc to base intimidate off of strength, I'm not sure what class get's it though.

[Mando Knight]

Tempest fighters and guardian fighters both need high wis.

Tempest Fighters prefer Dex over Wis. It helps with the whole "two-weapon" thing, especially since the made-for-Tempest powers have Dex-based bonus effects, as do most of their feats. The Pit Fighter's special ability only applies to one hit each round anyway, IIRC.

[demidracolich]

Um, in the build section it says the tempest fighter should also have a good wis.

[Faleldir]

Your get a bonus to OAs equal to your wisdom modifier. I'm not aware of any builds that let you swap that feature out, but if you found one more power to you.

It's called Combat Agility, from Martial Power 2.

[Meta]

Um, in the build section it says the tempest fighter should also have a good wis.

Those build recommendations are sketchy at best. A fighter can get away with no dex OR wis frankly if hes going for heavy armor, a hammer or axe, etc. Fighters can built quite a few ways with many stats (only wizards are probably more stat flexible)

[Excession]

If you're just look for better intimidate, there's also the Cincture of the Dragon Spirit item from AV. Waist slot, level 6, has a property that lets you base intimidate checks off Str rather than Cha.

[tcrudisi]

Yes, it is very possible and not terrible, either. However, what are you going for? If all you want is to increase Intimidate, get the cincture (as someone above said). If you are trying for something else, let us know and we might be able to help you more.

Also, if you are playing a Dragonborn, I could see going Cha instead of Wis (although I would not do it for Intimidate alone, by any means).

[Thajocoth]

There's a feat that lets you replace your "Wis to AoOs" with "Dex to AoOs". Alternatively, if you don't care about having a bonus to AoOs, neither stat really has to matter much.

There are other ways to get a high Intimidate too...

There is a background bonus, Wandering Duelist, that gives +3 to Intimidate.

There's a feat that gives the enhancement bonus of your Hide Armor to your Intimidate. This is useful if you go with a Str/Dex build, perhaps a Tempest Fighter since they get a bonus for Light Armor, and therefore have better AC in Hide than Chain or Scale.

I've written up a character that has this BG benefit, is a Fighter trained in Intimidate, and is Str/Dex with Int dumped. Cha at level 1 is 10. His Intimidate is almost as high as his Athletics.

[Shazbot79]

There's a feat that lets you replace your "Wis to AoOs" with "Dex to AoOs". Alternatively, if you don't care about having a bonus to AoOs, neither stat really has to matter much.

There are other ways to get a high Intimidate too...

There is a background bonus, Wandering Duelist, that gives +3 to Intimidate.

There's a feat that gives the enhancement bonus of your Hide Armor to your Intimidate. This is useful if you go with a Str/Dex build, perhaps a Tempest Fighter since they get a bonus for Light Armor, and therefore have better AC in Hide than Chain or Scale.

I've written up a character that has this BG benefit, is a Fighter trained in Intimidate, and is Str/Dex with Int dumped. Cha at level 1 is 10. His Intimidate is almost as high as his Athletics.

Feat is called "Agile Superiority."

I think it was from a Dragon Article.

[Faleldir]

In my opinion, a magic item that anyone can use isn't as satisfying as actually being good at a skill.

[Mando Knight]

Um, in the build section it says the tempest fighter should also have a good wis.

Like Potion said, the build section is wrong. Tempest Fighters go Str>Dex>Con/Wis>>Int/Cha, with Con and Wis being arranged as to whether you want HP or OA to-hit and Will. Since their bonuses work best while in Chain or lighter, dropping to Hide is often better as 16 (initial) Dex nets you the same AC as Chain but without the movement penalty. Going with Light armor and high Dex is also recommended if the Tempest fighter is going to be the only Defender in the party, since the build is normally a bit AC-light, especially compared to Sword-n-Board Defenders (including the Sword-n-Magical-Jazz-Hand Swordmage). Also, since the best Tempest weapons are the Short and Double Swords, you'll need a lot of Dex to satisfy the Dex-hungry Light Blade feats.

[Meta]

Like Potion said, the build section is wrong. Tempest Fighters go Str>Dex>Con/Wis>>Int/Cha, with Con and Wis being arranged as to whether you want HP or OA to-hit and Will. Since their bonuses work best while in Chain or lighter, dropping to Hide is often better as 16 (initial) Dex nets you the same AC as Chain but without the movement penalty. Going with Light armor and high Dex is also recommended if the Tempest fighter is going to be the only Defender in the party, since the build is normally a bit AC-light, especially compared to Sword-n-Board Defenders (including the Sword-n-Magical-Jazz-Hand Swordmage). Also, since the best Tempest weapons are the Short and Double Swords, you'll need a lot of Dex to satisfy the Dex-hungry Light Blade feats.

That's far better advice then pretty much any 'recommended build' section WotC has. If i see one more piece of swordmage art that uses a shield...

If you only want high intimidate, the cincture of dragon spirit, a background that gives a +2, and a racial bonus are plenty for 'everyday' use unless you're trying to break the game by being able to essentially 'kill' anything at bloodied (and once a day, you can make it a one hit ko with a flensing weapon!). But you should check with your DM about how he/she manages intimidate as a skill. Pretty much everything about its combat application screams DM discretion because it can be extremely overpowered.