Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 45
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default TWF spiked chain build question

    I am toying around with the idea of creating a Whiplash-ish character (but with loads of AoOs and trips) and here is my problem:

    Looking at the spiked chain.. it is a 2-hd weapon medium. My character is large and if he were to use a medium spiked chain.. Would he be allowed to use two at one time? Or should I use a small chain? (Or is it at all possible to dual wield spiked chains?)
    Last edited by Niro; 2010-05-21 at 07:01 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: TWFed chain build question

    Not sure that the rules have anything to say about it. Strictly a dm question.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    What if I added "Monkey Grib"? That would in increase my spiked chain to the huge size.. but if I intead used a medium spiked chain.. My hands should be big enough to wield both weapons :\

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Demons_eye's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Mi Lower P
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Sadly it does not work that way. A two handed weapon is still two handed large or small.

    What you need to another set of arms.
    ~Sweet avatar by Miss Nobody~

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike
    You killed it, its dead, it exploded, Good Job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logalmier View Post
    "I need a latter! Quick, find a psion so he can make one with his mind!"

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    The cavestalker PrC from Drows of the Underdark allows you to treat a spiked chain as 1 handed, so combined with oversized two weapon fighting and you can wield two spiked chains without any penalty.
    Alternativly you can use the light weapon variant of the spiked chain in DMG. Same weapon, but damage is dropped to 1d4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demons_eye View Post
    Sadly it does not work that way. A two handed weapon is still two handed large or small.
    No, a medium two handed weapon counts as 1 handed for a large creature.
    Last edited by Boci; 2010-05-21 at 07:12 AM.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    jokey665's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Quote Originally Posted by Demons_eye View Post
    Sadly it does not work that way. A two handed weapon is still two handed large or small.

    What you need to another set of arms.
    Oh? Let's see what the SRD has to say:

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by sonofzeal View Post
    Lower levels arcane spells are usually a drag, but lower level psionic powers are often just higher ones waiting to be augmented.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Aww :(
    Well I guess it sounded too goodt o be true. I gues I will have to stay with one spiked chain then.
    Any ideas to the build? I was thinking to add "whirvelwind attack" to the mix so I can hit everything that my reach allows me to do
    (I will probably get a keen spiked chain.. and some way of turning the damage type to slashing so I can add the vorpal enchantment too)

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Northamptonshire, UK

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    I've allowed a medium character to wield two small spiked chains in my game.

    However, I've ruled that one of the benefits of the spiked chain is lost: you can't switch between reach and close up fighting with only one hand on the weapon.
    That leaves you with a choice of holding one short and the other long, or both long, or both short.
    So you can't unleash all the TWF, AoO cheese - just some of it.

    The player in my game solved that by getting armour spikes.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Killer Angel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Lustria
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Not only this.
    Using a medium weapon if you are large, brings this:

    Originally posted by srd:

    Inappropriately Sized Weapons
    A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder
    Do I contradict myself?
    Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)


    Things that increase my self esteem:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiyanwang View Post
    Great analysis KA. I second all things you said
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeYounger View Post
    Great analysis KA, I second everything you said here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu_Bonkosi View Post
    If I have a player using Paladin in the future I will direct them to this. Good job.
    Quote Originally Posted by grimbold View Post
    THIS is proof that KA is amazing
    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    Killer Angel, you have an excellent taste in books
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Historical zombies is a fantastic idea.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair_the_Vexed View Post
    I've allowed a medium character to wield two small spiked chains in my game.

    However, I've ruled that one of the benefits of the spiked chain is lost: you can't switch between reach and close up fighting with only one hand on the weapon.
    That leaves you with a choice of holding one short and the other long, or both long, or both short.
    So you can't unleash all the TWF, AoO cheese - just some of it.

    The player in my game solved that by getting armour spikes.
    So your nerfed a feat intensive and suboptimal combay style that is perfectly legal?
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ossian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    For a second I thought you were going to stat Shun of Andromeda...



    Well, Whiplash is also cool. I think you should treat the energy-whips as medium sized exotic weapons. The damage will be significantly higher. Say that they are high-enchantment weapons that deal 1d3+STR+5 (enchantment of the whip, ability to slash trhough armors etc...) +2d8 (energy damage) and ignore the DR of all materials (apart from the magic ones like adamantine, mithril etc...), a bit like the light-sabers in Star Wars d20). Reach is 15 feet.

    With a feat for exotic weapon, and the 2-wf feats' tree, the light-whips are pretty feat-expensive but become a force to be reckoned with.

    O.
    Enjoy my creations
    Gatsu, from Berserk (Kentaro Miura's)
    A hero: the Tekkaman space-knight.
    The villain he has to face: Dobrai, Valdaster Overlord from Tekkaman


    Threadwinner of Vs Mage challenges.
    Warning: may perform below standards if target has no heat signature (eg: undead mage)

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    crazedloon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    kusari-gama (ignored when mentioned before) it is a 1 handed weapon which deals 1d6 damage but works like a spiked chain (has reach threatens all ect) that is what you want, get proficiency in those and profit
    Last edited by crazedloon; 2010-05-21 at 07:23 AM.
    Check out my horrible homebrews

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Northamptonshire, UK

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    So your nerfed a feat intensive and suboptimal combay style that is perfectly legal?
    Nerfed? No, I allowed it. It's not "perfectly legal" - using the wrong sized weapon has penalties which I've waived for this character.

    Anyway: tell me how, with one hand on the weapon, and the other one full, you change from attacking at reach to attacking close up.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2009

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    I thought the entire chain is attackable with. Sure, it's a little long, but the middle of the chain will hit you regardless.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Orc in the Playground
     
    jokey665's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair_the_Vexed View Post
    Nerfed? No, I allowed it. It's not "perfectly legal" - using the wrong sized weapon has penalties which I've waived for this character.

    Anyway: tell me how, with one hand on the weapon, and the other one full, you change from attacking at reach to attacking close up.
    It's a flexible weapon, not a spear or halberd.
    Quote Originally Posted by sonofzeal View Post
    Lower levels arcane spells are usually a drag, but lower level psionic powers are often just higher ones waiting to be augmented.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Well it is a character to be used in a pathfinder gestalt campaign (So feats shouldnt be a problem).
    the campaign is that worlds largest dungeon or something similar.
    I read on this site that it could be pretty hard so I decided to create a hard-hitting character

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    crazedloon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair_the_Vexed View Post
    Anyway: tell me how, with one hand on the weapon, and the other one full, you change from attacking at reach to attacking close up.
    your first problem is you are trying to apply logic to the most ridiculous weapon in dnd

    but in theory the chain is a flexible weapon so no matter where your opponent it you can whip it around your opponent and it bends to make contact (thus the threatening all squares). In contrast a spear if held only at 1 point (which dnd assumes) can only thrust in a certain area and thus only threatens that area, there is a dead zone on the haft because it is past the threat zone.
    Check out my horrible homebrews

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Northamptonshire, UK

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Quote Originally Posted by Niro View Post
    Well it is a character to be used in a pathfinder gestalt campaign (So feats shouldnt be a problem).
    the campaign is that worlds largest dungeon or something similar.
    I read on this site that it could be pretty hard so I decided to create a hard-hitting character
    In Pathfinder, the spiked chain isn't a reach weapon.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair_the_Vexed View Post
    Nerfed? No, I allowed it. It's not "perfectly legal" - using the wrong sized weapon has penalties which I've waived for this character.
    Allowing them to do something far less optimal than dual wielding kusari-gama.

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair_the_Vexed View Post
    Anyway: tell me how, with one hand on the weapon, and the other one full, you change from attacking at reach to attacking close up.
    You want me to explain my character's combat abilities? I'm sorry, I haven't studied martial combat with a chain for years. I cannot tell you. Do I get to ask the logci behind the monster you use as a DM?
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2004

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    A reach weapon sized for a race smaller than your character does not grant you reach. I'm aware that FAQ =/= RAW, but consider the following:
    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ
    How do reach weapons work if they are of a different
    size than the creature wielding them? Say, an ogre wielding
    a Small or Medium glaive, or a human with the Monkey
    Grip feat wielding a Large ranseur? What is the reach for
    each situation?

    A reach weapon doubles its wielder’s natural reach, but
    only if the weapon is at least of an appropriate size for the
    wielder. Wielding a “too-small” reach weapon grants no reach.
    An ogre (Large) wielding a Medium or smaller reach
    weapon gains no reach from the weapon, and could thus attack
    foes either 5 feet or 10 feet distant (as normal for a Large
    creature wielding a non-reach weapon).
    A human (Medium) wielding a Large or larger reach
    weapon could attack a creature 10 feet away (but no further),
    and could not use the weapon to attack a creature 5 feet away
    (as normal for a Medium creature wielding a reach weapon). A
    human wielding a Small reach weapon would gain no reach
    from the weapon.
    The PH isn’t as clear on this as it could be, although an
    example of reach in action on page 113 in the PH provides
    pretty strong support: “A typical Large character wielding a
    reach weapon *of the appropriate size* can attack a creature 15 or
    20 feet away . . .” [asterisked added]. While this reference doesn’t
    mention the ability to wield a reach weapon larger than the
    appropriate size, allowing such a weapon to grant reach to its
    wielder is a reasonable extension of the spirit and intent of the
    rule.
    If a medium size reach weapon grants a medium size creature a 10 ft. reach, how would a medium size reach weapon extend a large creature's already 10 ft. reach to 20 ft.? The weapon does not miraculously extend in length to accommodate the wielder's reach. The only thing that may work would be a medium size creature wielding a reach weapon sized for a small creature, as both sizes have the same natural reach. As another example, there was something going on in the RPGA quite a while back where medium size characters were using a shield with a small longspear, which was ultimately ruled to not grant them anything more than their normal reach due to being an inappropriately sized weapon.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair_the_Vexed View Post
    In Pathfinder, the spiked chain isn't a reach weapon.
    Well... damn. I dont have the sourcebook at hand.. Can someone tell me if that kusari-gama is a reach weapon in there?

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


    Spoiler
    Show

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    UK

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair_the_Vexed View Post
    I've allowed a medium character to wield two small spiked chains in my game.

    However, I've ruled that one of the benefits of the spiked chain is lost: you can't switch between reach and close up fighting with only one hand on the weapon.
    That leaves you with a choice of holding one short and the other long, or both long, or both short.
    So you can't unleash all the TWF, AoO cheese - just some of it.

    The player in my game solved that by getting armour spikes.
    Hey! I'm withholding cheese by not becoming a rabid trip monster all the time, aren't I? (that and the twf penalties from wielding a not-light weapon)

    It's just a flavour thing, because if real cheese was wanted, a normal-sized chain and the Improved Trip feat would be pure gorgonzola.
    Last edited by Daremonai; 2010-05-21 at 07:39 AM.
    "Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Ftagn!" said the cultist.
    "Oh bother," said Pooh.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    So the spiked chain is out since we are playing pathfinder.. How about a Scorpion whip? Sure the damage is low but it is also a one handed weapon.
    Could I use monkey grib to bump both whips damage up to largeor is it just one of them?

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Quote Originally Posted by Niro View Post
    So the spiked chain is out since we are playing pathfinder.. How about a Scorpion whip? Sure the damage is low but it is also a one handed weapon.
    Could I use monkey grib to bump both whips damage up to largeor is it just one of them?
    Monkey grip is generally not assumed to be worth it. Just take power attack, its more versatile. If you're dual wielding 1 handed weapons you will want oversized two weapon fighting from either complete adventurer or scoundrel to avoid the harsh penalties.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Quote Originally Posted by Daremonai View Post
    if real cheese was wanted, a normal-sized chain and the Improved Trip feat would be pure gorgonzola.
    You seem to have a quite different understanding of "cheese" than many fellows around here. Yet another reason why the word is insufferably useless.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Secrets of Sarlona, an Eberron book, has the Spinning Sword, a 1 handed slashing spiked chain that looks kinda like Ivy's sword from Soul Calibre. With Oversized TWF (CAdv), you could duel wield them with the same penalties as you'd have for a pair of light weapons, except being 1 handed, you could PA with them. Also, since they are slashing, you could head into the Dervish PrC.

    There is also the Drow Scorpion Chain from the Eberron Campaign Setting, IIRC, which is a normal Spiked Chain that trades a smaller damage die for the slashing type and an expanded critical threat range. Not TWFable though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Secrets of Sarlona, an Eberron book, has the Spinning Sword, a 1 handed slashing spiked chain that looks kinda like Ivy's sword from Soul Calibre. With Oversized TWF (CAdv), you could duel wield them with the same penalties as you'd have for a pair of light weapons, except being 1 handed, you could PA with them. Also, since they are slashing, you could head into the Dervish PrC.
    DMG has Kusari-Gama which is Light Tripping version of pretty much the same weapon; shorter crit range though. If possible, I'd just go with that, save a feat on OTWF and profit (though no PA, but two-weapon PA isn't the best thing ever anyways).
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-05-21 at 08:37 AM.
    Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
    Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
    SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Question about an enchantment... And I am talking about Speed. If I put that enchantment on both of my two scorpion whips.. Does that give me 2 attacks at my highest bonus or just 1 extra?

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    UK

    Default Re: TWF spiked chain build question

    Quote Originally Posted by Foryn Gilnith View Post
    You seem to have a quite different understanding of "cheese" than many fellows around here. Yet another reason why the word is insufferably useless.
    Not so much, just as more of a relative term (relative to the average power of this particular game - Mr. Vexed is my DM). Nobody is particularly optimised or trying to be, and those of us who can optimise generally restrain ourselves. A TWF small-spiked-chain-wielding ranger/barbarian w/Combat reflexes that only trips occasionally is about par for the course - a build that had Improved Trip, a normal spiked chain and Power Attack that constantly tripped and PA'd would stomp all over everybody.

    In our game, at least. Your mileage may vary.
    "Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Ftagn!" said the cultist.
    "Oh bother," said Pooh.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •