Belrog for e6?

[RagnaroksChosen]

May need to run an encounter tonight with a belrog type monster.
The catch, is that I am running an E6 game. So i need a more challenging monster that would be a very difficult fight for them.

Current party is a
scout/ranger
wizard
bard

They're very shooty oriented.

Unfortunately i set up the situation much like Lotr(though i didn't relies till afterwords), so this monster needs to be able to fight in a set of mines though i can gm fiat a large room if need be(lotr did).

Also this is a low magic type game (they all have magic weapons) and they have some decent gear there healing is pretty much the bard.

Any ways any ideas would be great. I have access to pretty much every book and dragon compendium. (so no other dragon material) and its technically for tonight. Any Ideas?

[ZeroNumerous]

May need to run an encounter tonight with a belrog type monster.

I googled Belrog and discovered... Absolutely nothing.

However, it did ask me if I meant to search for Balor, which is the D&D version of a creature called a Balrog from Lord of the Rings.

I would not advise putting that against an E6 party(I'd also advise against E6 as a whole but that's my personal opinion).

[kamikasei]

What about a half-fiend or half-red-dragon troll or ogre with the appropriate weapons (flaming unholy whip (or spiked chain) and sword (sized to taste))? Depends on how much you want it to resemble a Balor from D&D scaled down, or a Balrog from LotR with abilities appropriate to the role.

[RagnaroksChosen]

@zero

Ya my spelling is bad. Balrog was the imagry i was going for i know balors are supposed to be similar but i was curious if there where any lower level monsters that had a similar feal to it.

Basicaly i need to run a trapped evil (perferably demon/devil/fiendish).


@kamikasei: Hmmm half fiend troll might work.. would be pritty vicious. Can you think any thing out of the box that may fit though(not that applying a template and equiping him would be that hard.

[Prime32]

Maybe you could build something with the Tome of Fiends, using the Large size and Wings of Evil feats. If you use the base classes there it should be pretty powerful.

[RagnaroksChosen]

I try not to use homebrew. I don't let my players so i can't moral use it.

[Hazkali]

Is the aim to mimic LotR and run from the thing, or to go toe-to-toe with it?

If the former, then aim for something with a CR 2-3 points above, and pull your punches with it- make the encounter more about overcoming various terrain features and lesser minions before it catches them, but if it does manage to catch them, let them have a small opportunity to get away (perhaps a single-use McGuffin that can disorient it for two rounds).

If the latter, then you'll be looking at something CR 6-7. Out of the bag you have the Babau, Belker and Salamander that fit the general theme.

[kamikasei]

@kamikasei: Hmmm half fiend troll might work.. would be pritty vicious. Can you think any thing out of the box that may fit though(not that applying a template and equiping him would be that hard.

Not offhand. What would you consider a fit, though? The things in my mind were large size, powerful melee, spells or energy attacks, and wings. You might consider some of those optional.

[Ossian]

Option one: they are there to fight it.

Take the stats for a troll (stay "large", though Balrog should be "huge" at least), give it wings and DR 30 from fire (only Epic negates), and the 2 weapons of ordnance: large longsword, large whip, +1d6 (both) due to fire and of course the fire burst special ability, you might go "keen" and "unholy" if you wish. Add two-weapon fighting feats to taste and possibly some spell like abilities of fire and mind domination, x times a day each.

Option two: fly, you fools!
Same as above, only give the wings to a Fire Giant and you should be good to go. Scale weapons too.

Mental ability scores would be different though. Consider that a Balrog must have pretty high wisdom, intelligence and charisma, as they are sneaky , sly vicious cunning bastards.

O.

[Human Paragon 3]

Maybe a troll with either levels of Pyrokinetic or a troll gestalted with pyro. You don't have to follow the rules, really.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Hazkali: the general hints and description i have given to it has made it seem very belrog ish. After wards one of my players asked me if that was what i was going for and didn't relise that lotr subtly influenced my descriptions so i figure i should keep rolling with it.


Brief synopsis, players really don't have to go any where neer it, currently it is bound in a mine which it cannot escape from. I've told my players in game that don't need to go neer it. though they seem interested in going and either destroying it or trying to convince it to help.
Only way for it to help would be to bring it down 3-4 times and then it would offer to help just because it is annoying to regenerate.
They originaly thought the BBeg was hutning for an artifact it had(only last session they found out it was an artifact they had seen and not relised) though they expressed interest in going into the mine any way. I just want to be preped.
(on an out of game note, most encounters i stat are cr+1-3)

Ill check em out.
Hmm salamander may work. as well as the babau or what not...
Wish noble salamanders weren't cr 10

@kamikasei:
Ya i like the troll idea im working on a stat block of a half dragon and a half fiend and seeing if there good i was mainly looking for an out of box type because im lazy and i shoiuld be doing work work.

@Ossian:
Thansk for the tips.

@Gaurd Juris: Me and my players have an unwritten contract to play by the rules as much as possible, including my crazy acient magic all follow the rules and at any time, i could pull out the rules as to why and how something is happening.

[nedz]

Take a Balor and scale it down to the CR you want.
They'll probably run from it anyway

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Make it a Half-Fiend something large, using a variant Half-Fiend perhaps or just switch its spell-like abilities to something more fitting. I'd use a Dragonkin from the Draconomicon as the base creature, it already has wings and a decent natural armor bonus, with spectacular ability scores and a slow enough land speed that the PCs could get a tactical advantage on it. Replace its Darkness spell-like ability with Flame Blade, probably replace Poison with the Pyrokineticist's Fire Lash ability but still usable only 3/day. It wouldn't add its Strength bonus to any of its damage rolls, but it could still Power Attack with both and the extra damage would be additional fire damage plus they're touch attacks. Give it TWF, and count the lash as a light weapon. I'd also probably give it the elite array to have a high enough Dex to get Improved TWF. It should also be wearing some sort of armor to add a bit more survivability.

[The Glyphstone]

How do you want it to play out? Do you want there to be a possibility that they can beat it, or is it just there as a flavor piece, and maybe an end-boss if it breaks free or someone unleashes it/

If it's meant to be a winnable fight, a half-fiend ogre/troll would be fine. They can go brutalize it with only average losses.

If it's supposed to be a crazy-hard, but technically beatable fight, a half-red-dragon troll advanced to Huge size via HD addition would be a worthy foe - the only thing that can harm it is Acid damage, and it'll be a truck in terms of damage output. They'll probably lose horribly the first time they fight it, and if they go back with proper planning and a buttload of acid spells/acid flasks, they might win that time.

If it's meant to be an impossible fight, and you want to just get them to leave it alone and chase your main quest, use a straight-up Balor. Unless you're playing an Oblivion-style campaign where enemies scale to the level of the party, and everything is technically defeatable, you don't need to make it something they can defeat. This is okay to do once in a while, as long as you don't make a habit out of it (at which point it does become railroading in a velvet glove).

[RagnaroksChosen]

How do you want it to play out? Do you want there to be a possibility that they can beat it, or is it just there as a flavor piece, and maybe an end-boss if it breaks free or someone unleashes it/

If it's meant to be a winnable fight, a half-fiend ogre/troll would be fine. They can go brutalize it with only average losses.

If it's supposed to be a crazy-hard, but technically beatable fight, a half-red-dragon troll advanced to Huge size via HD addition would be a worthy foe - the only thing that can harm it is Acid damage, and it'll be a truck in terms of damage output. They'll probably lose horribly the first time they fight it, and if they go back with proper planning and a buttload of acid spells/acid flasks, they might win that time.

If it's meant to be an impossible fight, and you want to just get them to leave it alone and chase your main quest, use a straight-up Balor. Unless you're playing an Oblivion-style campaign where enemies scale to the level of the party, and everything is technically defeatable, you don't need to make it something they can defeat. This is okay to do once in a while, as long as you don't make a habit out of it (at which point it does become railroading in a velvet glove).

I went half black dragon troll as one of my options.
as trolls are rare in my game and they don't know about regeneration.
(im not going to describe the creature as a troll) .


And no oblivion style. We play static worlds, some things then run from.
For example at level 4 they ran from a retriever. They got away due to being able to get to a small enough tunnel and the retriever reaching the end of its "teather"(some plot stuff). they rolled some great saves against the eye rays.



@Biffoniacus_Furiou:
Beautiful find on the variant halffiends if i go the template route i may use some of these thanks.

@nedz: I thought of that but it would be a pain and i'd rather keep it something legal.

[The Glyphstone]

I went half black dragon troll as one of my options.
as trolls are rare in my game and they don't know about regeneration.
(im not going to describe the creature as a troll) .


And no oblivion style. We play static worlds, some things then run from.
For example at level 4 they ran from a retriever. They got away due to being able to get to a small enough tunnel and the retriever reaching the end of its "teather"(some plot stuff). they rolled some great saves against the eye rays.



@Biffoniacus_Furiou:
Beautiful find on the variant halffiends if i go the template route i may use some of these thanks.

@nedz: I thought of that but it would be a pain and i'd rather keep it something legal.

I'd use Red dragon personally because it grants fire immunity, and being wreathed in fire/ carrying fiery weapons is a big Balrog-ey thing. Half-Black Dragon also works, as long as you don't stack both of them on it at the same time. :)

[Drogorn]

Well, the balrog probably shouldn't have wings. If it had wings, well, that bridge wouldn't have been much of an obstacle, now would it?

[RagnaroksChosen]

Well, the balrog probably shouldn't have wings. If it had wings, well, that bridge wouldn't have been much of an obstacle, now would it?

I figured gandalf prolly cast some sort of earth bind spell and or what not.


@The_Glyphstone: Ya i agree Im still up in the air about it. The half dragon is so rediculously brutal though... Thanks for the sugestions though.

[Machiavellian]

I actually say possible usage of Earthquake?

[RagnaroksChosen]

I actually say possible usage of Earthquake?

Though it does seem like a sculptided earthquake ...
gandalf was only 5th level.

[Ossian]

Wings Vs No Wings?

Argh, you just started WW III

Well, regardless of Gandalf's level (I think he used a "shatter" spell there) a beast of the size of the Balrog might or might not have had wings that were probably there to make him look more badass, devilish and able to glide. Thus, falling suddenly down a relatively narrow shaft might have made maneuvering impossible. He could have probably jumped over the bridge, but he wanted to hand down to Gandalf a lesson in humility, and he stopped at the bridge to face him, which proved to be a big mistake.

Just out of curiosity, the Balrog is stated to have wings in MERP and can fly up to 80 meters per round of 10 seconds, but only after 4 full rounds. Basically he gains 20 meters of flying speed per round (and is a clumsy flyer at that) per round spent flying.


I agree on the Run Vs Fight thing. If they are supposed to even stand a chance, stat the fiery monster to CR +2 to +3 (like CR 8 -9). Otherwise, just use a full on Balor, which is a pretty epic opponent.

Ossian.