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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Running in the shadows has never been so hard [Shadowrun]

    Okie dokes. Someone else wants me to join their game. But the problem is... Its shadowrun! A system I've only ever heard about. The DM lent me his books. I've read the corebook, kind of (I only got it yesterday). This is what I have come up with so far. The basic premise is an Elfish Face, want an ambassador to deal with a situation and don't want to send anybody valuable in? Send this guy. Now, the problem is... I've hit a bit of a hitch. I have 21 bp left (and the DM has given us 20 Karma that I haven't used yet). What I don't have is money or contacts. Two extremely important things for this character.

    Any tips and tricks for combat, because whilst I'm hoping I won't get into combat. The chances of that happening are very unlikely. What haven't I looked into? What have I missed? Have I spread myself to thin?

    Thanks playgrounders!

    Spoiler
    Show
    Elf; 35

    Bod; 3 (20)
    AGI; 3 (10)
    Rea; 3 (20)
    Str; 3 (20)
    Cha; 6 (30)
    Int; 3 (20)
    Log; 3 (20)
    Wil; 3 (20)
    Ini (2/12); 2
    Edge; 1
    Essence; 6
    Magic; 5 (50)
    =200bp

    Combat Active Skills
    Unarmed Combat 2; 8
    Pistols 2; 8
    Dodge 2; 8

    Physical Active
    Disguise 2; 8
    Escape Artist 2; 8
    Infiltration 2; 8
    Perception 2; 8
    Shadowing 2; 8

    Social Active Skills
    Con 3; 12
    Etiquette 3; 12
    Intimidation 3; 12
    Negotiation 3; 12

    Technical Active Skills
    Computer 2; 8
    Data Search 2; 8

    Vehicle Active Skills
    Pilot Ground Craft 2; 8

    Knowledge Skills 18 free skills
    - Fine dining 3
    Languages
    - English 3
    - Japanese 3
    - Sperethiel N
    - Or'zet 3
    - Arabic 3


    Qualities
    - Adept (5)
    - Improved Ability (2)
    - Con (.5)
    - Etiquette (.5)
    - Intimidation (.5)
    - Negotiation (.5)

    - Kinesics (1)
    - Improved Sense (.5)
    - Improved Scent (.25)
    - Improved Taste (.25)

    - Criticale Strike (1)
    - Combat Sense (.5)

    - Trust Fund (20); High lifestyle (.5)

    Negative Qualities
    - Day Job (10BP); $2,500/20 hours
    - Dependents (5BP); (Work friends)


    Total = 379
    21 points left

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2009

    Default Re: Running in the shadows has never been so hard [Shadowrun]

    You might want to look at skill groups. For example, you could save about 18 BP (I think) by buying your Social skills in the Influence skill Group.

    I wouldn't spend <i>too</i> much on contacts if I were you. They are rather expensive BP wise, and you're playing a social character. You can make contacts. That's what Etiquette's for.

    You could always put more points into your skills, I don't see any at 5 or 6.
    Also Edge.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    haunting your nightmares
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Running in the shadows has never been so hard [Shadowrun]

    several things

    1 elf is 30 not 35 build points
    2 where do you find trust fund?
    3 high lifestyle is 10,000 per month or 2 bp per month you prepay

    each build point is worth 5000 in cash for gear and lifestyle.

    get a doc wagon contract, 1 month high lifestyle, one pistol of choice with smartlink, glasses with smartlink flare and vision mag, earbud, subvocal mic, comlink of choice, a couple extra clips for your weapon and its ammo, actioneer business suit, and a car or scooter. Then start buying contacts. you will need a fixer, mr J, bar tender, arms dealer, government official ucas and tir. each will require at least 2 bp for a connections 1 loyalty 1 contact. each bp spent on the contact above 2 adds to either loyalty or connections your choice. if you run out of bp for contacts just start dopping them for the back of my contacts list there.
    This is my BRUTE'S MINICITY

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Mar 2006

    Default Re: Running in the shadows has never been so hard [Shadowrun]

    androgial, trust fund is in the Runner's Companion.

    Also, looking over what you have a few more point/suggestions.

    1. You get the first point of magic for free, so magic 5 only costs 40 bp.
    2. As an adept there is little reason not to spend all your power points on adept abilities. You have 5 (equal to your magic) and it looks like your only spent 3
    3. When you buy Improved Sense, you can choose what sense you want enhanced, it looks like you're booth buying improved sense and improved taste/smell.
    4. You might want more levels of unarmed combat.
    5. Your initiative is equal to your reaction + intuition (and its free)

    Otherwise I mostly agree with what everyone else says. As for contacts, yes with social skill you can easily make friends, but it is still oh so useful to have actual contacts that you can ask for help. Especially as a face, since much of your party roll is to know people. The suggestions androgial gave are good, but really just choose some people your character is likely to know. All contacts can be useful.

    And buy a commlink and *programs* for it (page 232 in the 20th anniversary ed). You probably just want some basic programs (the legal ones). And you can just get one of the program packages they have there if you don't want to mess with what rating programs you have.
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
    Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    --Will S.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Running in the shadows has never been so hard [Shadowrun]

    If you're going for someone whose going to be using unarmed combat buy some Shock Gloves (particularly for someone with a relatively low strength). Similairly insulate your armour , taser weapons are nasty.
    Buy some goggles put thermo and flash dampening in them.
    A good fake ID is always a good idea
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Running in the shadows has never been so hard [Shadowrun]

    Just got home. So lets see what questions I have until I post the finished product... I've updated all the things you guys have said. Thanks!

    I've been looking around, and this seemed to be a really cool idea. It's all in a suitcase and he brings it about with him. So, to most casual observers he seems like a normal business man. But he can easily go into "means business" mode. The laser link is to the glasses. A uncrackable stream of information to the glasses of the programs. Yes please. Now, the question is... What are all the ratings? Whats the difference between rating 1 or 6? All help would be awesome, thanks. This is just confusing me.

    Briefcase; v1.0
    Spoiler
    Show
    * Laser Link; 50
    * Hardening; 150
    - Facial Recognition
    - Gait Analysis
    - Lie Detection
    - Noise Analysis
    - Vehicle Identification
    - Voice Recognition
    - Microphone; 50
    - MAD Scanner; 225

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Swordguy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Covington, KY
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Running in the shadows has never been so hard [Shadowrun]

    Quote Originally Posted by KatfishKaos View Post
    Okie dokes. Someone else wants me to join their game. But the problem is... Its shadowrun! A system I've only ever heard about. The DM lent me his books. I've read the corebook, kind of (I only got it yesterday). This is what I have come up with so far. The basic premise is an Elfish Face, want an ambassador to deal with a situation and don't want to send anybody valuable in? Send this guy. Now, the problem is... I've hit a bit of a hitch. I have 21 bp left (and the DM has given us 20 Karma that I haven't used yet). What I don't have is money or contacts. Two extremely important things for this character.

    Any tips and tricks for combat, because whilst I'm hoping I won't get into combat. The chances of that happening are very unlikely. What haven't I looked into? What have I missed? Have I spread myself to thin?

    Thanks playgrounders!

    Spoiler
    Show
    Elf; 35

    Bod; 3 (20)
    AGI; 3 (10)
    Rea; 3 (20)
    Str; 3 (20)
    Cha; 6 (30)
    Int; 3 (20)
    Log; 3 (20)
    Wil; 3 (20)
    Ini (2/12); 2
    Edge; 1
    Essence; 6
    Magic; 5 (50)
    =200bp

    Combat Active Skills
    Unarmed Combat 2; 8
    Pistols 2; 8
    Dodge 2; 8

    Physical Active
    Disguise 2; 8
    Escape Artist 2; 8
    Infiltration 2; 8
    Perception 2; 8
    Shadowing 2; 8

    Social Active Skills
    Con 3; 12
    Etiquette 3; 12
    Intimidation 3; 12
    Negotiation 3; 12

    Technical Active Skills
    Computer 2; 8
    Data Search 2; 8

    Vehicle Active Skills
    Pilot Ground Craft 2; 8

    Knowledge Skills 18 free skills
    - Fine dining 3
    Languages
    - English 3
    - Japanese 3
    - Sperethiel N
    - Or'zet 3
    - Arabic 3


    Qualities
    - Adept (5)
    - Improved Ability (2)
    - Con (.5)
    - Etiquette (.5)
    - Intimidation (.5)
    - Negotiation (.5)

    - Kinesics (1)
    - Improved Sense (.5)
    - Improved Scent (.25)
    - Improved Taste (.25)

    - Criticale Strike (1)
    - Combat Sense (.5)

    - Trust Fund (20); High lifestyle (.5)

    Negative Qualities
    - Day Job (10BP); $2,500/20 hours
    - Dependents (5BP); (Work friends)


    Total = 379
    21 points left
    OK, this is worth temporarily logging back in to help with. Katfish, you've got enough rules errors in your character build that I'd have to effectively deconstruct the character entirely to fix them. Thusly, What I'll do is rebuild the character from scratch, keeping as much of your concept available as possible, and explaining WHY I've done certain things.

    Your concept, as I understand it, is an Elven Face who is as comfortable moving around on the streets as he is in High Society. Combat isn't his "thing", but he'll need to at least have the skills he needs to keep himself alive.

    The first thing we're going to do is keep in mind that, for a primary skill (guns for a gunbunny, hacking for a decker, and social stuff for a face), you need to be rolling upwards of 12 dice at a minimum - preferably 14-16. Negative dice modifiers pile up FAST in SR4e, so to guarantee yourself a pool of only about 5 dice to roll, you need to have 12+ available to you under "ideal" conditions. This fact will color everything that follows.

    First, we're spending 30 BP for your race (Elf), 5 points on the Adept Positive Quality so you can have a Magic Attribute, and the full 200BP on attributes. The stuff that's important to you will be Charisma (obviously), Agility (important to everybody) and Willpower (a resistance stat). Strength and Body aren't as important to you, so we'll short them a bit (we'll invest in good body armor later), giving you a final statline of:

    Body 2 (20)
    Agility 5 (40)
    Reaction 3 (30)
    Strength 2 (20)
    Charisma 7 (50)
    Intuition 3 (30)
    Logic 3 (30)
    Willpower 4 (40)
    Edge 2 (20)
    Magic 4 (30)
    (BP spent is in parentheticals) Remember - the 1st point of magic is free, Edge doesn't count toward the 200BP limit on attributes, and you get a point of Agility and 2 points of Charisma just from being an Elf.

    Next, we're gonna move on to Skills. You're a Face, so you're just gonna want the whole Influence Skill Group, just to save time. Max it out at Rank 4 (40BP). That means you're rolling 11 dice (Cha 7 + Skill 4) for Con, Etiquette, Intimidation, and Negotiation. No specialties, true...but that's still a good start. Next, you've done a good thing in remembering that every Shadowrunner needs some stealth skills - but you're a bit overboard. We'll give you Infiltration (Urban) at Rank 3 - it'll cost 14 BP, but it'll serve you very well. Next you need some way to get around. I'd suggest the Athletics Group, if for no other reason than it'll help you run away. We'll take it at 2; not great, but you'll be able to do what you need with it. Next is perception - also at Rank 3 (a bare minimum). Finally, some sort of combat skill - Pistols at 3, and we're gonna talk more about this later. That's a total of 102 points of skills. I'd totally be willing to spend more...but you're short BP as it is.

    As for Languages and Knowledge skills, your stats grant you 18 points to split between them. I HIGHLY suggest at least a basic understanding of Spethriel (elven) at Rank 2, and then take 4 Knowledge skills of your choice at Rank 4 each.

    So, let's move on to those qualities. First thing: Trust Fund. Look, I know you want your PC to move around in high society...but this a) isn't worth the 20BP, and b) you're totally ASKING to get screwed over by a GM. The fact that Trust Fund requires you to have a legit SIN means that the second you get shot on a run, somebody runs a DNA scan and traces you to the scene of the crime...you're hosed. What's worse, your Trust Fund WILL be cut off, and then you're out 20BP. That's taking a huge risk. I'd avoid it. For positive qualities, aside from the Adept Quality noted above, there's not much you should take - most qualities are overcosted; note that for a +1 skill bonus via a Quality, it normally costs +5BP. Buying the actual Skill Rank only costs +4BP in an Active skill. Think small here; just take the First Impression Quality for 5BP and call it a day.

    Now, for negative qualities...here's where you're earning BP to have things like Gear and Contacts. Max 'em out. I'd suggest the following package: Low Pain Tolerance (you aren't a combat monkey, and this should encourage you to keep your head down), Scorched, Sensitive Neural Structure (BTLs are BAD, OK?), Day Job, and Dependents (-5BP, your co-worker as noted). That's the full 35 BP, and you're gonna need every one of them.

    Next is Contacts. These are your bread & butter. You NEED to start with contacts, and either upgrade or get more during game play. If you start with practically no Contacts, you don't really bring your group anything. For the Face, you are who you know. At a minimum, I suggest this list:

    (Loyalty/Connection)
    Redmond Squatter 1/2 (for stuff outside of downtown)
    Seattle Squatter 1/2 (for stuff downtown)
    Bartender 2/2
    Bartender 2/2 (two differently-themed bars, like a decker bar and a gunbunny bar)
    Gang Member 3/2
    Gang Member 3/2 (two different gangs)
    Fixer 4/4 (NEEDS to have Connection 4 to get hot stuff out of the City and law enforcement's immediate reach)

    Yes, that's 32 BP in Contacts. If you had more available, I'd say pick up a Police Captain at 5/5 - contacts in Lone Star are incredibly useful.

    Next, we start looking at the interplay between Cyber and magic. Contrary to popular belief, you can have Magic and Cyber/Bioware on the same character...you just need to be SMART about it. This is also where reality comes into play...you NEED to have some sort of reflex enhancer in SR. At a minimum, you need to be taking 2 actions per round, not just 1. Currently, the only magical reaction enhancer available to an Adept is the horrifically-expensive "Improved Reflexes" ability, which costs two full magic points (20 BP, or 100,000 nuyen equivalent). Screw that. Let's use your Magic to do stuff that Cyber and Bio can't match. Let's hit up the "Street Magic" book to find all the Adept powers that don't suck and...ah yes. Cool Resolve. We'll take 4 levels of this (for a cost of 1 magic point) to gain +4 dice when you're the target/defender in an opposed Social Roll. Nobody is going to talk you into what you don't want to do. Next, Kinesics Rating 2 (for 1 Magic Point) is an excellent choice - we'll stick with that (plus it stacks with Cool Resolve, Mr. Unflappable). Finally, we'll take the Improved Skill ability and give a 1-point boost to Etiquette and a 2-point boost to Negotiation (0.75 magic Points spent), and save that last .25 Magic Points to buy Improved Taste; you're going to be everyone's favorite guy at the wine-tasting event, yeah?

    Now, you'll note we've only spent 3 of your 4 Magic Points. That's because you're going to temporarily lose access to the last one, because we're taking some cyberware (you can eventually get that point back by Initiating and taking a geas - a behavioral limitation). Specifically, you're grabbing a Rating 1 Synaptic Booster to grant +1 Init Pass and +1 Reaction (80,000 NY) for a cost of 0.5 Essence, and Rating 2 Tailored Pheremones (another 2 dice to Social Tests) for a cost of 0.4 Essence and 30,000NY. This is a total of 110,000NY - so you've spent 22 BP on gear thus far. In total, your character looks like this:

    Spoiler
    Show

    Attributes
    Body 2 (20)
    Agility 5 (40)
    Reaction 3 (30) - effective score 4 after Synaptic Booster
    Strength 2 (20)
    Charisma 7 (50)
    Intuition 3 (30)
    Logic 3 (30)
    Willpower 4 (40)
    Edge 2 (20)
    Magic 4 (30) - effective score 3

    Essence 5.1
    Initiative Passes: 2


    Skills
    Active:
    Influence Skill Group 4 (40)
    Athletics Skill Group 2 (20)
    Infiltration (Urban) 3(5) (14)
    Pistols 4

    Knowledge
    Skill 1 4
    Skill 2 4
    Skill 3 4
    Skill 4 4

    Language
    English N
    Spethriel 2

    Contacts
    Redmond Squatter 1/2
    Seattle Squatter 1/2
    Bartender 2/2
    Bartender 2/2
    Gang Member 3/2
    Gang Member 3/2
    Fixer 4/4

    Positive Qualities
    Adept (5)
    First impression (5)

    Negative Qualities
    Day Job (-10)
    Dependents (-5)
    Low Pain tolerance (-10)
    Sensitive neural Structure (-5)
    Scorched (-5)

    Adept Powers
    Improved Skill Etiquette 1 (0.25)
    Improved Skill Negotiation 2 (0.5)
    Improved Taste (0.25)
    Kinesics 2 (1.0)
    Cool Resolve 4 (1.0)

    Cyber/BioWare
    Synaptic Booster 1 (0.5 Ess)
    Tailored Pheremones 2 (0.4 Ess)

    NY Spent: 110,000 (22 BP)


    OK, at this point, you have 19 BP free to do what you want with. I'd suggest buying some good gear (the best armor you can get, a couple of pistols, at least one machine pistol that you can lay down suppressive fire with, an external smartlink system for the gun, thermal/UV/low-light goggles or glasses, some smoke grenades, your AR system) and your lifestyle with at least 1 safehouse the rest of the team doesn't know about. If there's any left, look into getting more knowledge skills or even a specialty with your machine pistol so you can actually HIT something on full-auto. Heck, grab some more languages even; it's never a bad thing to be able to converse with someone in their native tongue.

    In combat, your first action is ALWAYS to dive for cover. Drop a smoke grenade on your own position. You do NOT want to get shot. Wear form-fitting armor under your clothes, and stack it if you have to (it doesn't count toward the stacking limit, being form-fitting) with an actual regular piece of armor. If you feel the need to shoot, lay down suppressing fire with a full-auto or burst-fire pistol and try not to attract attention. Make sure your comrades know that you are NOT a combat character at all. If they get annoyed, the easiest way for you to eventually be effective at combat will be to get the Launch Weapons and Throwing skills and chuck grenades from a safe distance - preferably on a parabolic trajectory from behind a wall or something.

    And for reference, here's your Social Skill roll for negotiation:

    7Charisma + 4Skill +2 Improved skill power + 2 Kinesics + 2 Tailored Pheremones (+2 First Impression if you've not met him before) (+4 if you're the defender in the Social Roll from Cool Resolve)=17 or 19 dice (or up to 23 if you're the defender)
    Last edited by Swordguy; 2010-05-22 at 10:01 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dervag
    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin
    Thus, knowing none of us are Sun Tzu or Napoleon or Julius Caesar...
    No, but Swordguy appears to have studied people who are. And took notes.
    "I'd complain about killing catgirls, but they're dead already. You killed them with your 685 quadrillion damage." - Mikeejimbo, in reference to this

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