Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    quiet1mi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In the shadows
    Gender
    Male

    Default Under-optimization...

    To ensure that nothing is optimized, I use a random dungeon generator found at mythweaver...

    It is a group of 4 level 4 characters and they have been having a lot of trouble with the monsters inside... (Mainly kobolds)

    I was wondering if there is a grade that I could go by to see how/if they are under optimized they are...

    Example: by level 4 you should have about a +_ to hit... a specialized character will have a +_ to hit... etc
    Spoiler
    Show
    A Fighter/Paladin will just hack you to bits

    A Wizard/Sorcerer will just blow you up with a spell

    A Rogue/Ranger/Monk will just kill you in your sleep

    A Cleric/Druid will just squash you after buffing himself

    A Bard will slowly twist your ethics, corrupt your morals, and make you do vile acts just for the chance to face him. When you fight him, he will have your family and friends fighting for him. For he wields the deadliest weapon against you and that is, his word against yours.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Default Re: Under-optimization...

    Thgis will be a lot easier for us if you tell us their race, class, role in the party and state generation method.
    Last edited by Boci; 2010-05-23 at 12:34 PM.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2009

    Default Re: Under-optimization...

    Oh, and the game system (DnD 3.5, DnD 4 or something completely different?)

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    quiet1mi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In the shadows
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Under-optimization...

    Sorry about that

    Edition of D&D [3.5]
    Party:
    • 4th level Half Orc Barbarian: Main Damage Dealer
    • 4th level Human Duskblade: Main Damage Dealer
    • 1st level Rogue, 3rd level half-elf Bard: Utility and support
    • 3rd level Catfolk Fighter [2 weapon fighter]: Combat Support, Protects against Flanking

    Generation of characters: Elite Array [I have gotten tired of explaining the 32 point buy system...]
    Spoiler
    Show
    A Fighter/Paladin will just hack you to bits

    A Wizard/Sorcerer will just blow you up with a spell

    A Rogue/Ranger/Monk will just kill you in your sleep

    A Cleric/Druid will just squash you after buffing himself

    A Bard will slowly twist your ethics, corrupt your morals, and make you do vile acts just for the chance to face him. When you fight him, he will have your family and friends fighting for him. For he wields the deadliest weapon against you and that is, his word against yours.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Under-optimization...

    My 2cp:

    Level 4 characters, assuming standard wealth by level (WBL), should each have access to an appropriate magic weapon and/or wand and suit of magic armor and/or bracers.

    With decent rolls or a minimum of standard point buy, I'd expect any full BAB character to have at least +10 to hit, even if it's only with one weapon. I'd expect even a marginally optimized melee character to be able to dish out more than 20 HP damage consistently.

    Casters should easily be able to have at least one spell with a DC of 18 by this point.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


    Spoiler
    Show

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: Under-optimization...

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet1mi View Post
    Generation of characters: Elite Array [I have gotten tired of explaining the 32 point buy system...]
    Just toss 'em a link.

    If you've got a lot of spare time (and their character sheets), you could run a simulation to see how tough the combats are. Pretty work intensive and not foolproof though.
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Under-optimization...

    I see no one who can heal or really do ranged combat. I think that may be the problem.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Elsewhen
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Under-optimization...

    It looks like all of the characters in the party are focused on dealing damage in the front lines except for the bard. Since your party lacks any spellcasting classes, the entire group lacks versatility to deal with a threat in more than a few mundane ways.

    I'm not sure what to suggest to you other than having enemies that use little spellcasting and spell-like abilities and focus more on mundane threats like ogres and trolls.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Under-optimization...

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet1mi View Post
    Sorry about that

    Edition of D&D [3.5]
    Party:
    • 4th level Half Orc Barbarian: Main Damage Dealer
    • 4th level Human Duskblade: Main Damage Dealer
    • 1st level Rogue, 3rd level half-elf Bard: Utility and support
    • 3rd level Catfolk Fighter [2 weapon fighter]: Combat Support, Protects against Flanking

    Generation of characters: Elite Array [I have gotten tired of explaining the 32 point buy system...]
    Part of the problem looks like no dedicated primary caster, and extremely limited restorative abilities. No Druid or Cleric makes the Rogue 1/Bard 3 the de facto healbot at a time when the party might actually find a healbot useful.

    If the Rogue/Bard didn't spec for ranged, as well, that leaves two typical niches under-represented in this group. That leaves them vulnerable to a wider array of threats than a more well-rounded party would be.

    EDIT: Me speak Engrish gud.
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2010-05-23 at 01:26 PM.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


    Spoiler
    Show

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PId6's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Paper
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Under-optimization...

    Get the rogue/bard to start UMDing wands of Cure Light/Lesser Vigor, and healing will be taken care of. Drop them some more wands/scrolls and the rogue can be utility caster as well. He'll have to max UMD for this though, and it wouldn't hurt to give him some Masterwork Tools of UMD and/or a Circlet of Persuasion.
    Rogue Handbook | Warmage Rebuild | Diablo's Assassin | Revised Classes
    Potpourri Creation Contest II Winner: Desert Martial Adept Substitution Levels
    Potpourri Creation Contest III Best Characterization: Edward the Sly's Lucky Spells
    Prestige Class Contest XXI Submission: Child of the Seelie Court

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Prime32's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ireland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Under-optimization...

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet1mi View Post
    I was wondering if there is a grade that I could go by to see how/if they are under optimized they are...

    Example: by level 4 you should have about a +_ to hit... a specialized character will have a +_ to hit... etc
    Optimisation by the Numbers
    Last edited by Prime32; 2010-05-23 at 02:21 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: Under-optimization...

    Quote Originally Posted by PId6 View Post
    Get the rogue/bard to start UMDing wands of Cure Light/Lesser Vigor, and healing will be taken care of. Drop them some more wands/scrolls and the rogue can be utility caster as well. He'll have to max UMD for this though, and it wouldn't hurt to give him some Masterwork Tools of UMD and/or a Circlet of Persuasion.
    He's a Bard. He doesn't need UMD to use wands of spells that appear on the bard list. This includes cures.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •