Chameleon PrC Questions

[MiniMoose]

I'm planning on creating a Chameleon sometime down the road. So far, probably going 5 Rogue/10 Chameleon/5 ??? I want a class that allows me to get into chameleon asap, so bluff and disguise need to be class skills, but does anyone else have good suggestions for base (ive looked at beguilder, spellthief, ninja and swashbuckler but not a fan of any of them over rogue).

Also, some questions about the aptitude. Being usable more times a day, like at lvl 5 and 10, this still only allows you one aptitude at a time, correct? And at level 7 you gain the ability to hold more than one aptitude?

When you are allowed two aptitudes, are you allowed two ability boons?

As far as ability to casts spells, it says "you cast spells as a wizard/cleric" depending on aptitude. Does this mean you still need the 10+Int or Wis modifier to be able to cast those spells? It only mentions getting extra spells from ability scores, not requiring them to cast. Also, is there an easy way to make your arcane spells ignore spell failure from light armor?

[Mongoose87]

Factotum is all you need.

[MiniMoose]

Factotum is all you need.

What/Where is it?

[Jarian]

What/Where is it?

Dungeonscape. It's a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none, sort of thing. Only so much better than that makes it sound.

[Mongoose87]

Ever wanted to add your INT to everything? This is the closest you'll ever come.

[Jack_Simth]

I'm planning on creating a Chameleon sometime down the road. So far, probably going 5 Rogue/10 Chameleon/5 ??? I want a class that allows me to get into chameleon asap, so bluff and disguise need to be class skills, but does anyone else have good suggestions for base (ive looked at beguilder, spellthief, ninja and swashbuckler but not a fan of any of them over rogue).

Bard makes a good entry, actually. All the skills you need, and due to the way the flexible feat and your focus are worded, you need some kind of a caster level to take item creation feats with your flexible feat - so the Bard-5/Chameleon-10/Whatever-X works out fairly well. Just remember to take Practiced Spellcaster (Bard) and Craft Rod as normal feats, and you can make most items in the game (mini artificer).

Rogue is definately not a bad entry, though.

Also, some questions about the aptitude. Being usable more times a day, like at lvl 5 and 10, this still only allows you one aptitude at a time, correct? And at level 7 you gain the ability to hold more than one aptitude?

Correct.

When you are allowed two aptitudes, are you allowed two ability boons?

That's a bit less clear. You'll likely want to ask your DM, as your DM will be the person who's ultimately answering that question.

As far as ability to casts spells, it says "you cast spells as a wizard/cleric" depending on aptitude. Does this mean you still need the 10+Int or Wis modifier to be able to cast those spells?

Yes, but your Ability boon will generally be able to cover it. I'd also suggest picking up a Belt of Magnificence (even just a +2 one) post-haste.

It only mentions getting extra spells from ability scores, not requiring them to cast. Also, is there an easy way to make your cham spells ignore spell failure from light armor?

Either use a Bardic base and cast Charm Person as a Bard spell, or pick up that nifty feat that lets you treat arcane spells as Divine or vice-versa with your floating feat.

[MiniMoose]

Awesome, thanks.

Also, does there exist a feat that allows you to make a chosen skill(s) class skill(s)? IE, could i somehow make bluff and/or disguise a class skill for pretty much anything using a feat to make any class viable?

[Frosty]

You could just take one level of Factotum and Able Learner feat. Now all skills are class skils forever.

[senrath]

I can't think of anything that gets specific skills off the top of my head, but a Human Factotum 1 with the feat Able Learner effectively has all skills as class skills forever.

Edit: Ninja'd.

[Gnaeus]

Factotum is probably the best, but if you don't like it for any reason, 2 other classes you should look at are Swordsage and Cloistered Cleric (Trickery Domain).

2 levels of Swordsage give you wis to AC in armor. Because Divine Focus us by far the strongest focus during the early chameleon levels (since you know ALL divine spells off any class list, but you only know the arcane spells you can find and scribe), a high wisdom is very beneficial for the chameleon. ToB classes mix very well with multiclass builds, and using the floating feat for a stance or maneuver is often cool.

1 or 3 or 5 levels of cloistered cleric give lots of benefits, including turn attempts, Knowledge devotion and one other, and good casting (including the potential for item creation feats.

Also, is there an easy way to make your arcane spells ignore spell failure from light armor?

Mithril twilight chain shirt. By the time you really want to be an arcane caster, you can afford it.

[Greenish]

Also, does there exist a feat that allows you to make a chosen skill(s) class skill(s)? IE, could i somehow make bluff and/or disguise a class skill for pretty much anything using a feat to make any class viable?

UA has Skill Knowledge*. Any Martial Study will give the skill related to the school of the maneuver you pick as a class skill. Eduction gives you all knowledges as class skills. Criminal Backround gives you Bluff, Open Lock and Sleight of Hand as class skills.

I'm sure there are others like these, but really, Able Learner is probably your best bet.


*Note that the feat is a part of the alternative skill system.

[Optimator]

I always liked Warlock as an entry into CHameleon too. Costs 4 extra skill points but I still think it's a good entry.

[Yorrin]

I'll second Able Learner, if only because it's a prereq. But I'd advise either taking the Feat Rogue from UA or a Psychic Rogue from the internet.

If you get Factotum to work for you, great. I've personally never quite seen the benefit of them, so I'd agree with whoever said Bard over Factotum. That being said, Feat Rogue has all the things you love about about rogues, but instead of lame precision damage you get extra fighter feats. This is about as versatile as I've seen in a class. Psychic Rogue has the advantage of being slightly Psionic, which is not something Chameleon can mimic. So it adds to your end-game list of things you can do. Don't forget to pick up Practiced Manifester to help your ML. With either one you might as well go Rogue Variant 5/Chameleon 10/Rogue Variant 5, to keep your massive number of skill points and either your feats or manifesting.

As for the 2-aptitudes, 2-ability boons, I've always ruled no. There's nothing, in my mind, to indicate you'd get that.

Other than that I think Jack_Smith covered everything pretty well.

[Ferrin]

I'd go for Factotum1/Warlock4 to enter Chameleon, gives you 3 least invocations, detect magic at will, take 10 on use magic device, and cunning insight 2/encounter, all which work well regardless of what you play.

[Amphetryon]

Factotum 1/Incarnate 4/Chameleon 10/Umbral Disciple 5.

[Ferrin]

Factotum 1/Incarnate 4/Chameleon 10/Umbral Disciple 5.

Incarnate works, but not if you;

A. Don't want to be stuck in a certain alignment.
B. Don't want others to see the soulmelds you have on you.

Also, where is Umbral Disciple from?

[Amphetryon]

Incarnate works, but not if you;

A. Don't want to be stuck in a certain alignment.
B. Don't want others to see the soulmelds you have on you.

Also, where is Umbral Disciple from?

Magic of Incarnum, funnily enough.

[Ferrin]

Hmm, I like it. Increases your incarnum and allows you to hide in plain sight. But still depends on how he's going to play his character.

[Kosjsjach]

I'll +1 the Warlock entry, but suggest a Changeling Rogue (racial) 1/ Warlock 4/ Chameleon X. (Changeling Rogue racial substitution levels are in Races of Eberron.) Look like anyone, bonuses to Bluff, Sense Motive, and Gather Information, "Take 10" on Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Info, Intimidate, Sense Motive, and UMD, 3 invocations (*cough*beguilinginfluence*cough*)... yeah, it's pretty awesome.

[KitTheOdd]

I'm a big fan of Changeling Rogue 1 (racial substitution)/Rogue 2 (evasion is NICE)/Factotum 3 (Int to so, so much). Throw in a couple levels of Warshaper for some real shenanigans. And a late level or 2 of either swordsage or warblade can add some interesting melee options.

Or Human Factotum 5 or Factotum 3/Swordsage 2

[Thurbane]

Binder (base) and Master of Masks (PrC) are classes that have some syngery with Chameleon, but aren't as good a choice as Factotum.

[LibraryOgre]

Personally, I like going Warlock 5->Chameleon 2 -> Warlock 13.

With a Human and a +1 from Int, you can hit the requirements without a problem (though I would suggest a +2 from Int, so you can be boosting UMD the entire time). You lose out on your top-end DR (you cap at 4 instead of 5), a hit of energy resistance (you're at 5, not 10), and two top-end invocations... but you gain so much in that little, 2nd level Chameleon ability.

"Bonus Feat".

See, you can reset that bonus feat each day. On your standard days, you might make it a Bonus Invocation feat.... pick up a low-level invocation when you need it. If you're crafting, make it one of the crafting feats. Going into a social situation? Pick up a skill bonus feat, if nothing else tickles your fancy. Likewise, you can pick an aptitude focus to suit your needs. Going out to pound on people? Combat focus adds to eldritch blast attack and damage. Wild focus lets you travel rapidly cross-country. Stealth focus gives you uncanny dodge to save your bacon. I wouldn't go much more than 4 levels in Chameleon... more than that and you lose the ability to make your bonus feat a Greater invocation.

[Ferrin]

Personally, I like going Warlock 5->Chameleon 2 -> Warlock 13.

With a Human and a +1 from Int, you can hit the requirements without a problem (though I would suggest a +2 from Int, so you can be boosting UMD the entire time). You lose out on your top-end DR (you cap at 4 instead of 5), a hit of energy resistance (you're at 5, not 10), and two top-end invocations... but you gain so much in that little, 2nd level Chameleon ability.

"Bonus Feat".

See, you can reset that bonus feat each day. On your standard days, you might make it a Bonus Invocation feat.... pick up a low-level invocation when you need it. If you're crafting, make it one of the crafting feats. Going into a social situation? Pick up a skill bonus feat, if nothing else tickles your fancy. Likewise, you can pick an aptitude focus to suit your needs. Going out to pound on people? Combat focus adds to eldritch blast attack and damage. Wild focus lets you travel rapidly cross-country. Stealth focus gives you uncanny dodge to save your bacon. I wouldn't go much more than 4 levels in Chameleon... more than that and you lose the ability to make your bonus feat a Greater invocation.

However awesome that is, and it is. It's not a chameleon anymore by then.

[Ingus]

For a melee Chameleon: Swashbuckler 3, Rogue 3 (or Factotum), Invisible Blade 5, Chameleon 9
or
Swashbuckler 3, Swordsage 4, Chameleon 10, Master of Nine 3 (but you have to invest most of the feats to obtain maneuvers)

For a very jack of all trades: Factotum 8, Chameleon 10, Factotum 2
or
Artificer 10, Chameleon 10

For a Chameleon killer
Warlock 5, Chameleon 10, Assassin 5
or
Factotum 3, Swashbuckler 3, Chameleon 8, Telflammar Shadowlord 6

[Mongoose87]

Does anyone really only take one level of Factotum? Factotum 3 is the best level evar.

[Ferrin]

Does anyone really only take one level of Factotum? Factotum 3 is the best level evar.

Thing is, I'd rather have one extra invocation and take 10 on UMD then what I'd gain from 2 levels of factotum. (when I take factotum1/warlock4 to enter that is)

[alisbin]

another option is to see if your DM will allow you to take the chameleon base class. FMArthur from the forums here did a really nice job with it (i'm currently playing one and its very nice).
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90955