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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    ok, am I reading this wrong or something? The final Stone Dragon strike,
    MOUNTAIN TOMBSTONE STRIKE
    has no prereqs for Known manuvers, so any user just has to have a high enough level. This sounds wrong. Is there errata I am missing. If so what is the number of strikes needed to learn this move?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    AstralFire's Avatar

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fouredged Sword View Post
    ok, am I reading this wrong or something? The final Stone Dragon strike,
    MOUNTAIN TOMBSTONE STRIKE
    has no prereqs for Known manuvers, so any user just has to have a high enough level. This sounds wrong. Is there errata I am missing. If so what is the number of strikes needed to learn this move?
    I'm not aware of any errata. It's possibly an error, but note that Stone Dragon is the only discipline available to all three classes, and that (IIRC) its final ability is one of the weakest ones, for almost any purpose. It's there as a safety net for poor planning.
    Last edited by AstralFire; 2010-05-23 at 06:23 PM.

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    HAHAHAHAH!

    No, seriously. This was wizard's biggest wtf moment in history. They got a paragraph into the ToB errata, and then it just got cut off and became the complete mage errata. No errata for you!

  4. - Top - End - #4

    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Nope! That's the beauty of 3.5, it doesn't care!

    Swordsage'd!
    Last edited by Faleldir; 2010-05-23 at 06:23 PM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    AslanCross's Avatar

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    I'm still sore about this subject.


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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Jair Barik's Avatar

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by AslanCross View Post
    I'm still sore about this subject.
    It could be worse. One of the feats could be woefully underpowered or intriguingly useful depending on wether you read its summary or its entry! Oh... wait....

    He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Faleldir View Post
    Swordsage'd!
    Because every Ninja worth his salt is actually a Swordsage/Rogue.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Even worse one poster (I think it was Sinfire Titan) emailed WotC and asked if he copuld make an errata for them and was told no.
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    DragoonWraith's Avatar

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Barik View Post
    It could be worse. One of the feats could be woefully underpowered or intriguingly useful depending on wether you read its summary or its entry! Oh... wait....
    Which are you referring to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Even worse one poster (I think it was Sinfire Titan) emailed WotC and asked if he copuld make an errata for them and was told no.
    To be fair, they'd have to review anything he submitted and it would be a fair amount of work for them to support a product they no longer really care about. But the fact that they published that part of an errata indicates that there is more errata somewhere that they just never bothered publishing, despite his e-mail.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Jair Barik's Avatar

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    The shadow blade feat. Summary and description seem to be describing different things. One trades one stat fr another with certain weapons, one adds an extra stat to damage when in a certain stance type.

    He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
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    Lycanthromancer's Avatar

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Because every Ninja worth his salt is actually a Swordsage/Rogue Factotum.
    Rogue sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    To be fair, they'd have to review anything he submitted and it would be a fair amount of work for them to support a product they no longer really care about. But the fact that they published that part of an errata indicates that there is more errata somewhere that they just never bothered publishing, despite his e-mail.
    Why don't we just make one anyway? As long as we don't include enough of the original to break the nondisclosure agreement inherent in non-OGL material, they can't really do much. Especially if it's an anonymous group project.
    Last edited by Lycanthromancer; 2010-05-23 at 06:41 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jair Barik View Post
    The shadow blade feat. Summary and description seem to be describing different things. One trades one stat fr another with certain weapons, one adds an extra stat to damage when in a certain stance type.
    Why is dex instead of strength underpowered? You can dump strength.
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    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Why is dex instead of strength underpowered? You can dump strength.
    It's not necessarily.

    Dex instead of strength is underpowered compared to Dex plus strength.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthromancer View Post
    Rogue sucks.
    No, the class is fine if you do the work. You're simply not accessing all the 21 supplements you need to get the ACFs, feats, and items to make the class work nicely.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    demidracolich's Avatar

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    i don't think he's saying its underpowered, hust that the wording of the two descriptions are different and confusing.
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    No, the class is fine if you do the work. You're simply not accessing all the 21 supplements you need to get the ACFs, feats, and items to make the class work nicely.
    Does it involve Truedeath crystals, Craven and darkstalker feats, and PRC's?

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Jair Barik's Avatar

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Precisely.
    As it is in the full description you can get strength, intelligence and dexterity added to the damage of all your attacks with a little bit of swashbuckler in the mix. Rogue likes (characters not games) often take decent Int and dex but often out points into Strength too so they can fulfill a close combat sneak attacking role and so they can carry things without their spines snapping under the weight of their sword.

    He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    No, the class is fine if you do the work. You're simply not accessing all the 21 supplements you need to get the ACFs, feats, and items to make the class work nicely.
    Even if you get full SA against everything, aren't you still a melee character with d6 hp who stand adjecent to a monster.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Even if you get full SA against everything, aren't you still a melee character with d6 hp who stand adjecent to a monster.
    How high do you need to get your Hide check to pull it off without being seen?

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrin View Post
    How high do you need to get your Hide check to pull it off without being seen?
    A PrC that grants Hide in Plain Sight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrin View Post
    Does it involve Truedeath crystals, Craven and darkstalker feats, and PRC's?
    Well, it always involves Craven if you're going to be in combat; that's like Power Attack for a tank class. But there are lots of ways you can go, and every one of them takes significant work to execute well.

    There's Penetrating Strike + Education + Knowledge Devotion + max ranks in 6 Knowledge skills + Skill Mastery + Savvy Rogue + Fanged Ring + Use Magic Device + wand of Greater Mighty Wallop, as one example of a way to be good in melee (guaranteed to out-hit the full BAB classes from about level 12 on).

    Or if you're going for a 1-level dip into Shadowdancer, you've pre-booked most decisions through selection of your level 9 feat (Spring Attack), including buying Mobility as an armor enhancement and a keen rapier as your melee weapon -- either that, or you're not building the Rogue efficiently.

    The Craven-less approach can be accomplished with Quick trait + Boots of Speed + Glove of Storing + Quick Reconnoiter + Use Magic Device + wand of Alter Self (to assume the form of a Varag) + Skill Mastery + max ranks & items to boost Spot, Tumble, and Sleight of Hand: Spot every bit of gear on an enemy, Tumble 100' to them, nick all that stuff with free action Sleight of Hand checks, and Tumble 100' away (putting obstacles in the way to prevent a charge attack).

    Lots of possibilities. Lots of fun. But lots of work, too.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    That's always been a pet peave of mine that the core stealth class doesn't have the must have stealth ability. HiPS is freakin core what were they thinking?
    Last edited by Hand_of_Vecna; 2010-05-23 at 07:39 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    AstralFire's Avatar

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand_of_Vecna View Post
    That's always been a pet peave of mine that the core stealth class doesn't have the must have stealth ability. HiPS is freakin core what were they thinking?
    You're looking at D&D 3 from the perspective of someone who has the dozens of splatbooks, years of experience, and actual playtesting. They were looking at it from the PoV of 'alright, we worked out all of the hard rules and crap, this looks like it works, and it works at the low levels we played with the 11 classes we have, and the high levels are just more of the same really.'

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand_of_Vecna View Post
    That's always been a pet peave of mine that the core stealth class doesn't have the must have stealth ability. HiPS is freakin core what were they thinking?
    I think rangers were meant to be the stealth class. Rogue's were supose to specialize in a wide variety of skills, stealth being one of them.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

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    Tavar's Avatar

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    I don't know. My first thought on seeing the HiPS ability was "why doesn't the rogue have this?". At the time I had only the PHB+the DMG, and hadn't really played much.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    All Stone Dragon maneuvers require you to stand on the ground to use them. You should by reliably flying by then.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand_of_Vecna View Post
    That's always been a pet peave of mine that the core stealth class doesn't have the must have stealth ability. HiPS is freakin core what were they thinking?
    Personally I'd throw it in the Rogue special abilites, a bit weak but so are most of the existing ones, if you're bothered by it. You do realise you are talking about the people that didn't give an unarmed fighting class proficiency with unarmed attacks, gave us the mind-breakage that is drown-healing (with no way to stop said drowning) and has introduced enough jokes into otherwise serious rules text that it's never entirely clear what the intent actually is (the power Deja Vu was printed twice, the spell components for Fireball are the ingredients for gunpowder, many illusion spells have wool listed as a component to literally and figuratively "pull the wool over their eyes", the power Deja Vu was printed twice, the Genius Loci (a monster that camoflagues itself as the terrain you are walking on) has Jump as its only listed skill, etc.).

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Glyphstone View Post
    It's not necessarily.

    Dex instead of strength is underpowered compared to Dex plus strength.
    And that is more powerful how?

    Generally, when I run a shadow hand-heavy swordsage, I'm running a Strongheart Halfling with a STR score of 6. Thus, INSTEAD of a -2, I have a +5 (at level 1) for a total of +7 bonus. Wheras if I were to add them, it would be only a +3. It's more advantageous, normally, for a replacement than an addition.

    Y'see, some of us use point buy rather than roll 1d6+12...
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  29. - Top - End - #29
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    AstralFire's Avatar

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    I don't know. My first thought on seeing the HiPS ability was "why doesn't the rogue have this?". At the time I had only the PHB+the DMG, and hadn't really played much.
    My guess, given that Shadowdancer gets it, was worries about Sneak Attacks being too strong and the hope that it would weaken the rogue's offense to get it.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: TOB, Is there errata I am missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    All Stone Dragon maneuvers require you to stand on the ground to use them. You should by reliably flying by then.
    Maybe if you hid a clump of dirt in the sole of each shoe...

    That said, has anyone compiled an unofficial list of ToB stuff that requires errata? I have noticed some erroneous material in the book, plus the errata did touch on a few areas before being replaced with complete mage stuff. Or shall we create our own errata now?

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