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    PaladinGuy

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    Default [3.5 Base Class] The Foot Knight: A Knight Fix [PEACH]

    This is my first homebrew ever, I think it may need a few more abilities, so, I'm open to suggestions. I'm also open to critique.

    I'm attempting to fix, or provide a variant to the the Knight class from the PHB 2. It appears to useless outside of tanking, and most of the other abilities, aren't particularly great either. Basically, I want to play the knight in shining, and be a rather useful addition to an adventuring party. So, without further ado, here goes:

    The Foot Knight

    "Strength, honour and valour, all virtues that I strive to gain, in combat and life."


    The knight is a proud, charismatic, honourable combatant who fights in the name of chivalry. He is the man who wades into battle on foot, wearing full-plate armour, fighting off hordes of enemies.

    The Knight
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus |Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Knights Code, Knight's Challenge, +1 Fighting Challenge, Knightly Repuation

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Feat: Shield Specialisation

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Bulwark of Defence, Mettle

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Armour Mastery: Medium, Test of Mettle, +2 Fighting Challenge
    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Vigilant Defender, Feat: Shield Ward

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Shield Ally

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Lunge, +3 Fighting Challenge

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Call to Battle

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Armour Mastery: Heavy, I'll Cover You

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Counter, +4 Fighting Challenge

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Improved Lunge, Shield Block +1

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Daunting Challenge
    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Attack not the Ally, +5 Fighting Challenge

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |Improved Shield Ally

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Improved Counter

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Improved Call to Battle, +6 Fighting Challenge

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Impetuous Endurance

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Fight Back

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |+7 Fighting Challenge

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Loyal Beyond Death, Shield Block +2[/table]

    Hit Dice: d12
    Skill Points: 4+Int (x4 at 1st level)
    Class Skills: Appraise, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Knowledge (local), Listen, Perform (Oratory), Ride, Sense Motive, Spot and Swim.

    Class Features:

    Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: The Knight is proficient with all simple, martial weapons and the bastard sword. He is also proficient with light, medium, heavy armours and all shields (including tower shields).

    Knight's Challenge: This ability can be used 1/2 your class level + your charisma bonus (minimum 1) times per day. You gain access to the abilities that rely on Knight's Challenge, as per the table.

    Knight's Challenge Abilities:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Fighting Challenge: Pick any opponent that has a CR greater than or equal to your character level minus 2. Against this worthy opponent, you place your honour and reputation on the line and as a result, fight harder and better than usual. You gain a morale bonus to attack, damage, and will saves as listed on the table. Additionally, you gain temporary hitpoints equal to the bonus listed on the table multiplied by 5. This ability uses up 1 Knight's Challenge and lasts for 5 rounds plus your charisma modifier, it is possible to issue more than 1 fighting challenge an encounter. If you are reduced to 0 hitpoints, you lose 1 use of Knight's Challenge.

    Test of Mettle: As a swift action, you can shout out a challenge, calling the greatest of the enemies to face you in combat. Enemies of Intelligence 5 or greater, within 100ft of you, can see and hear you and a have CR of your level minus 2 or greater can be affected by this ability. The targets that are can be affected make a will save (DC = 10+1/2 Class Level + Charsima Bonus), and if they fail, they will be forced to attack you, by any means necessary (this includes spells, supernatural abilities, melee and ranged attacks). This ability lasts for 5 rounds plus your charisma modifier. An enemy targeted by this ability can be affected only once per day.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Note: Unlike in the ability of the same name mentioned in the PHB 2, the effects of the Test of Mettle do not end when an ally attacks a targeted creature.

    Call to Battle: A Knight's conviction is so strong, that he can convince himself, and others to fight on, even when everything seems lost. As a free action, you can expend a use of the Knight's Challenge to allow and ally, or yourself, to roll another saving throw against a fear affect. If an ally, is the target of this ability, he gains bonus to his save equal to your Charisma bonus.

    Daunting Challenge: Yell out a call, that shakes all but the strongest of foes. As a swift action, you can expend a use of the Knight's Challenge, and force every enemy, Intelligence 5 or greater, who share a common language with you, can hear or see you, are within 100ft of you and are of a CR of less than your character level minus 2, to make a will save (DC = 10+1/2 Class Level + Charsima Bonus), or otherwise be shaken. If they fail this save by more than 5, they're frightened.

    Improved Call to Battle: This ability now extends to all mind affecting abilities.

    Loyal Beyond Death: A Knight can fight on, with the sheer force of his will, alone. When reduced below 0 hitpoints and your body is still intact, you may expend one use of the Knight's Challenge, to remain conscious and able to act, before dying/falling unconscious, for one more round. It is possible to expend uses of the Knight's Challenge, round to round, to stay conscious, until you run out of uses. When you run out of uses, you die, become disabled, or fall unconscious, depending on your hitpoint total at the time. Healing can raise your hitpoints during this time.


    Knightly Reputation: The title "Knight", is well known around the land and can be used to a Knight's advantage. At 1st level, you may add 1/2 your Knight level to intimidate and diplomacy checks.

    Knight's Code: A Knight must win through superior, strength and skill. He must always use fair play. A Knight should not:
    • Gain the flanking bonus, when flanking an enemy. He may, however, give a flanking bonus to allies.
    • Strike a flatfooted opponent.
    • Deal lethal damage to a helpless opponent

    If you violate the code, lose a use of the Knight's Challenge for the day. If no more uses are available, take a -2 penalty on attack rolls and saves. This represents the Knight undermining his confidence in himself, the very thing that makes him great.

    Shield Specialisation: A good knight knows how to use his shield well. He's trained for long enough and hard enough to master the art of shield defence. The Knight gains the feat: Shield Specialisation, and can choose to use this feat on tower shields.

    Bulwark of Defence: A Knight is always vigilant, making it hard to pass him by in a fight. If an opponent begins in a square threatened by the Knight, he treats all the squares that you threaten as difficult terrain.

    Mettle: A Knight is strong willed, as he is tough. If you roll a successful will or fortitude save, that woud still have an effect, despite the successful save, the effect is now negated with this ability.

    Armour Mastery: Medium: A Knight has trained and fought enough in his armour, to treat it like a second skin. Reduce the armour check penalty of medium armour by 1 and you may ignore the speed reduction caused by armour.

    Vigilant Defender: A Knight is extremely hard to get past, even for the most skilled opponents. When an opponent is trying Tumble past you without an Attack of Opportunity, he adds your class level to the DC.

    Shield Ward: A Knight, has enough skill to use his shield for more than deflecting attacks. He gains the the feat: Shield Ward.

    Shield Ally: As an immediate action you may opt to absorb half the damage given to an ally. He takes half damage, you take half damage. This lasts until your next turn, and you may absorb any physical damage.

    Lunge: A Knight knows how to make his way around the battlefield and lunge to reach places others would never reach. As a free action, you may temporarily increase your reach until next your next turn by 5 feet. By doing this, you take a -4 penalty to AC.

    Amrmour Mastery: Heavy: As, Armour Mastery: Medium, except it applies to Heavy Armour. Also, the armour check penalty of medium armour decreases by 1 again.

    I'll Cover You: A knight is very protective of his allies. As a swift action, he may provide cover to an adjacent ally or himself, using his shield. The ally gains a shield bonus to AC equal to the AC value of the shield. The Knight does not gain the shield's bonus to AC if using this ability on an ally. If you are holding a tower-shield you may provide total cover to yourself, or an ally.

    Counter: A knight knows that when one attacks, one is left open to attack. A good knight knows how to exploit this. When attacked, and the attack roll is 5 or more lower than your AC you may attack back at your highest attack bonus as an immediate action. This is usable once per round. It doesn't count as an AOO.

    Improved Lunge: As Lunge, but the penalty to AC is decreased to -2.

    Shield Block: A Knight knows how to use his armour and shield to ruin a foe's offensive. During his turn, he may designate an opponent and recieve a +1 AC bonus against him. This bonus increases to +2 at level 20. When using a heavy shield, or a tower shield, this bonus doubles.

    Improved Counter: As counter, except the attack roll only needs to be 3 or lower than your AC, and you may use this ability as many times as the chance arises.

    Attack not the ally: A Knight is very protective of his companions, and will do almost anything to stop his enemies from hurting his companions. When he fails, he feels the need to punish the foes that caused his allies harm. After an enemy threatened by the Knight deals damage to an ally, the Knight may immediately attack that enemy, at his highest attack bonus. This can be used once per round.

    Improved Shield Ally: As Shield ally except, he may absorb all damage, instead of half damage.

    Impetuous Endurance: A Knight is able to push his body beyond the normal limits. A natural 1 on a saving throw no longer is an automatic failure. However, if the saving throw fails to meet the DC, it is still a failure.

    Fight Back: A knight is able to strike back after taking even the most horrible damage. Once per round, after taking damage, as an immediate action, he may attack back at his highest attack bonus.
    Last edited by Samm; 2010-12-21 at 12:43 AM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    I'm not too good of a judge of what the Knight really needs to "keep up", but here's my initial thoughts:

    lol @Knight having a weak fort save. That's obviously a good fix. I've noticed neither your version nor the PHB2 version have Diplomacy as a class skill. Is this acceptable since they'll always be "Ok" at it via the class feature?

    I see you slightly weakened Shield Block. Think it'd be a good idea to add a caveat that with Heavy Shields, the Shield Block values double? So at 20th, an additional 4 AC against chosen target instead of 2 AC. Would give some incentive for those who aren't going the way of buckler+reach weapon.

    My biggest problem: I see Knight used a lot as a class to jump out of after 3 for the awesome Bulwark of Defense. Adding the 2 shield feats at level 2, along with adding Mettle at level 3, make this worse than ever. It's an obligatory 3 level dip to get you 2 feats and 2 awesome class features for tanks.

    Maybe that's not a bad thing.

    But since touch attacks aren't so deadly (or are they?) in the early levels, I might suggest moving Shield Ward to 5th level.

    Finally, I kinda can't stand reading through all the Knight's Challenges in PHB2, so I skimmed them here as well. Think you could italicize or something the segments that changed? Or am I right that the only changes are to Test of Mettle and the inclusion of Improved Call to Battle?

    Assuming I didn't miss anything in the Knight's Challenge section, I think I like it. Definitely an improvement.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Craft, Diplomacy, Knowledge (local), Listen, Spot could be possible class skills.

    I'd definitely add Craft and Diplomacy. Knowledge (local) would be kind of fitting in that knights should know about the locals and their issues fairly well, but that's up to you. D&D 3.5 doesn't do Knowledge (local) like it possibly should be done. In fact, Gather Information might fit as well.

    Listen and Spot are those skills that can fit anywhere.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2010-05-24 at 08:17 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei221 View Post
    D&D 3.5 doesn't do Knowledge (local) like it possibly should be.
    Actually, if you'd like an example of how to do Knowledge (local) correctly, look at the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, where if you take Know(local), you have to take it for a specific area, such as Know(local, Cormyr) or Know(local, Waterdeep) and that skill only applies to that one specific location, which is how it SHOULD be.

    Also, I'd like to note OP that the original Knight only had 1 dead level. Yours somehow has 2. This makes the class somewhat jarring to read and makes me scratch my head on how you managed that. Might want to consider adding a few more special tricks in there for higher level knights.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Honestly, the only reason I'd ever take Knight is for 4 levels for Test of Mettle, but then the Save DC for it is absurdly low because you only have 4 levels of Knight. I despise features that are keyed off of base class level, personally. I'd make that like, half BAB or half ECL or something.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    Actually, if you'd like an example of how to do Knowledge (local) correctly, look at the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, where if you take Know(local), you have to take it for a specific area, such as Know(local, Cormyr) or Know(local, Waterdeep) and that skill only applies to that one specific location, which is how it SHOULD be.

    Also, I'd like to note OP that the original Knight only had 1 dead level. Yours somehow has 2. This makes the class somewhat jarring to read and makes me scratch my head on how you managed that. Might want to consider adding a few more special tricks in there for higher level knights.
    You made me see a lack of parallel structure in my post. Gah!

    Fixed though.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    On Knowledge (Local), that does get somewhat awkward because it's also used for knowing about humanoids, rather than literal knowledge about the local area, peoples, and customs. Though there are easy fixes for that.

    Technically, I believe that the way the Forgotten Realms does is how it's supposed to be done in all settings, it's just no one actually bothers most of the time. The main reason is simple: the number of skill ranks required to make the skill useful is absurd.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    On Knowledge (Local), that does get somewhat awkward because it's also used for knowing about humanoids, rather than literal knowledge about the local area, peoples, and customs. Though there are easy fixes for that.

    Technically, I believe that the way the Forgotten Realms does is how it's supposed to be done in all settings, it's just no one actually bothers most of the time. The main reason is simple: the number of skill ranks required to make the skill useful is absurd.
    Knowledge skills get really useful with only one rank if you take Knowledge Devotion (the prerequisite is the exception).

    Of course, Knowledge Devotion requires role playing, so some characters won't really want it.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    The class is grossly overpowered compared to the fighter and barbarian. It outshines them in every way. Will save is the big chink in a fighters armor.. its pretty easy for the rampaging red dragon to scare the tin can into wetting himself or suggest them than to kill them.

    I know fighters get feats, but feats don't tend to scale very well with level. The knights abilities do.

    With that said, the fighting types may need to be overpowered compared to their phb counterparts in order to keep up with the wizards and druids.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by derfenrirwolv View Post
    The class is grossly overpowered compared to the fighter and barbarian. It outshines them in every way. Will save is the big chink in a fighters armor.. its pretty easy for the rampaging red dragon to scare the tin can into wetting himself or suggest them than to kill them.

    I know fighters get feats, but feats don't tend to scale very well with level. The knights abilities do.

    With that said, the fighting types may need to be overpowered compared to their phb counterparts in order to keep up with the wizards and druids.
    Here and here.

    Tiers 3 and 4 are generally what people shoot for in homebrew, although there have been a number of tier 1s and 2s as well. I've seen a few 5s and 6s too, but those are a bit rarer.

    That said, the knight sorely needed a fix. This helps, but I think the late levels need to provide a bit more so players will want to take the class to level 20. That's success in a class--when a player wants to play all the way through the class without multiclassing in 3.5.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2010-05-24 at 10:32 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei221 View Post
    That said, the knight sorely needed a fix. This helps, but I think the late levels need to provide a bit more so players will want to take the class to level 20. That's success in a class--when a player wants to play all the way through the class without multiclassing in 3.5.
    I disagree. Success comes when single and multiclassing are equally valid options.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    I disagree. Success comes when single and multiclassing are equally valid options.
    I didn't say when multiclassing wasn't valid. I said when a player wants to take a class to 20, that's success.

    A player can multiclass if they want, and that's fine too. It's just that when your class has benefits that don't scale properly to level, people won't want to take a class to 20th level. They'll stop and move on to fighter 2/homebrew 6/factotum blahblah...

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    when a player wants to play all the way through the class
    ...which isn't success. That's setting up a homebrew for multiclassing.

    The exception is found in prestige classes, which are essentially extended base classes. The wizard, cleric, sorcerer, etc. don't gain much from going to 20th level, whereas entering a prestige class can help a lot with class features while still advancing other abilities (turn undead, caster level (big one), familiar, etc.).
    Last edited by Temotei; 2010-05-24 at 11:28 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Success comes when single and multiclassing are equally valid options.
    I think we can all agree with this boiled down statement, all semantics aside. OP's Knight is a great start. Those 2 dead levels towards the end are a perfect place for higher powered, unique class features.

    As for encouraging Knight multi-classing, can anyone see the disadvantage of setting the DCs to HD-based instead of class-level based? Would such a change make all Knight builds 4-level Knight builds?

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    I like Knights as a 4-level-build because I love multiclassing/prestige classing, and because Test of Mettle is unique feature that is direly needed by tanks in this game. However, I don't think that is true of everyone. Whenever there's a thread about best capstone, Knight always receives high marks - it's a damn good capstone. Just needs more to fill out the levels before it, really.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Okay, I'll add Diplomacy to the class skills list along with Knowledge (local), Craft, Spot and Listen.

    I'll move shield ward to 5th lvl. I'll edit shield block to add an incentive to use a heavy shield.

    To fill some of the dead levels, I'm planning to give some nifty abilities:

    Counter: A knight knows that when one attacks, one is left open to attack. A good knight knows how to exploit this. At 10th lvl, when attacked, and the attack roll is 5 or more lower than your AC you may attack back at your highest attack bonus. This is usable once per round. It doesn't count as an AOO.

    Improved Counter: As counter, except the attack roll only needs to be 3 or lower than your AC, and you may use this ability as many times as the chance arises. This ability is gained at 15th lvl.

    How do these sound?
    Last edited by Samm; 2010-05-25 at 01:56 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    Okay, I'll add Diplomacy to the class skills list along with Knowledge (local), Spot and Listen.

    I'll move shield ward to 5th lvl. To fill some of the dead levels, I'm planning to give some nifty abilities.

    Counter: A knight knows that when one attacks, one is left open to attack. A good knight knows how to exploit this. At 10th lvl, when attacked, and the attack roll is 5 or more lower than your AC you may attack back at your highest attack bonus. This is usable once per round. It doesn't count as an AOO.

    Improved Counter: As counter, except the attack roll only needs to be 3 or lower than your AC, and you may use this ability as many times as the chance arises. This ability is gained at 15th lvl.

    How do these sound?
    Retribution (Ex): Every time the bloodseeker is attacked, they are allowed to return one of those attacks on their next turn as long as it causes hit point or ability damage. All such effects are returned as if the bloodseeker had initiated them. For example, if Aeron was hit by a tarrasque's bite attack, Aeron would bite back as if he had a natural bite attack with his own attack bonus, dealing damage appropriate for his size. Bloodseekers may not deal more than five times their class levels damage with retribution in a single round. Spells that are affected by retribution are considered supernatural effects. Attacks returned through retribution are free actions.
    Stolen from a prestige class I made. Obviously, your counter ability could work too, but not many monsters at higher CRs will be missing by 5 or even 3.

    What happens on a natural 1?
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei221 View Post
    Stolen from a prestige class I made. Obviously, your counter ability could work too, but not many monsters at higher CRs will be missing by 5 or even 3.

    What happens on a natural 1?
    Well, that'd be considered missing by more than 5 or 3. I'm nots sure about Retribution, it doesn't really seem Knightly... I might be able to make something similar, at higher levels, except without copying their attacks. Only just a good old swipe with the sword.

    Edit: That could go at level 18, with the counters arriving as per my last post! Woot, basically, attacking this guy is going to get you screwed, and your forced to fight him!
    Last edited by Samm; 2010-05-25 at 02:01 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    Well, that'd be considered missing by more than 5 or 3. I'm nots sure about Retribution, it doesn't really seem Knightly... I might be able to make something similar, at higher levels, except without copying their attacks. Only just a good old swipe with the sword.
    I proposed retribution as something to look at, not something to use, although you may use it if you like.

    Perhaps counter could be done with an opposed attack roll once per round, negating the effects of one attack against the knight and returning an attack at the knight's full base attack bonus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    Edit: That could go at level 18, with the counters arriving as per my last post! Woot, basically, attacking this guy is going to get you screwed, and your forced to fight him!
    That works too.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2010-05-25 at 02:04 AM.
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Pechvarry- I've Italicised what features I've changed from the Knight's Challange abilities.

    I've added Counter, Improved Counter and Fight Back, it's in the same vein as retribution, but it's simpler and not quite as powerful, although more immediate.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    I feel like a Prima Dona now. >.>

    Thanks a bunch. I really dig the additions to Fighting Challenge.

    As for Fight Back, etc. The problem with counter attacks is mean GMs. Though I guess you could always say "the problem with <anything> is mean GMs." So lemme try that again:

    For those who were too weak to be affected or made their save vs Test of Mettle, a less direct way of tanking would be nice. I think your Fight Back could be changed to "when an enemy you threaten attacks one of your allies..." similar to a constant Defensive Rebuke (tome of battle). But that's me.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pechvarry View Post
    I feel like a Prima Dona now. >.>

    Thanks a bunch. I really dig the additions to Fighting Challenge.

    As for Fight Back, etc. The problem with counter attacks is mean GMs. Though I guess you could always say "the problem with <anything> is mean GMs." So lemme try that again:

    For those who were too weak to be affected or made their save vs Test of Mettle, a less direct way of tanking would be nice. I think your Fight Back could be changed to "when an enemy you threaten attacks one of your allies..." similar to a constant Defensive Rebuke (tome of battle). But that's me.
    I love the idea, should I extend it to your allies, or make it work only with your allies? By this I mean, you only may attack back when an ally is attacked, instead of when you or an ally is attacked.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    The Knight
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus |Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Knights Code, Knight's Challenge, +1 Fighting Challenge, Knightly Repuation
    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Feat: Shield Specialisation,
    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Bulwark of Defence, Mettle
    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Armour Mastery: Medium, Test of Mettle, +2 Fighting Challenge
    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Vigilant Defender, Feat: Shield Ward
    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Shield Ally
    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |+3 Fighting Challenge
    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Call to Battle,
    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Armour Mastery: Heavy
    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Counter, +4 Fighting Challenge
    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Shield Block +1
    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Daunting Challenge
    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |+5 Fighting Challenge
    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |Improved Shield Ally
    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Improved Counter
    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Improved Call to Battle, +6 Fighting Challenge
    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Impetuous Endurance
    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Fight Back
    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |+7 Fighting Challenge
    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Loyal Beyond Death, Shield Block +2[/table]
    I've underlined and made bold points of concern. They're mostly just levels that could use a fluff ability of some sort or something.

    Congratulations on filling out the table though.

    There were a couple extraneous commas in there.
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    I'm thinking of adding a Lunge ability at level 7. Here it is:

    Lunge:A Knight knows how to make his way around the battlefield and lunge to reach places others would never reach. At 7th level, as a free action, you may temporarily increase your reach until next round by 5 feet. By doing this, you forfeit you dexterity bonus to AC. This ability only works with non-reach weapons.

    And also:

    Improved Lunge: As per Lunge, but at 11th level, you don't forfeit your dexterity bonus to AC.

    So what do we think?

    I'm not sure of other ideas yet, maybe a parry...But that should be commonplace for all melee combatants.
    Last edited by Samm; 2010-05-26 at 01:16 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    I'm thinking of adding a Lunge ability at level 7. Here it is"

    Lunge:A Knight knows how to make his way around the battlefield and lunge to reach places others would never reach. At 7th level, as a free action, you may temporarily increase your reach until next round by 5 feet. By doing this, you forfeit you dexterity bonus to AC. This ability only works with non-reach weapons.

    And also:

    Improved Lunge: As per Lunge, but at 11th level, you don't forfeit your dexterity bonus to AC.

    So what do we think?

    I'm not sure of other ideas yet, maybe a parry...But that should be commonplace for all melee combatants.
    Why is it limited to non-reach weapons? That seems like an arbitrary limitation.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei221 View Post
    Why is it limited to non-reach weapons? That seems like an arbitrary limitation.
    Okay, I'll let it roll with all melee weapons then. Also, I've sorted out the comma business.

    Edit: Added Lunge and Improved Lunge to the OP.
    Last edited by Samm; 2010-05-26 at 01:21 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Good Homebrew! It does "fix" the knight and bring him into line with the Tier 2 classes. Which is good.

    Personally, I'd like to see the Mounted Knight class Path. I really like the foot version, but I'd like to see a mounted version too. Perhaps no shield specialization?

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadian 9th View Post
    Good Homebrew! It does "fix" the knight and bring him into line with the Tier 2 classes. Which is good.

    Personally, I'd like to see the Mounted Knight class Path. I really like the foot version, but I'd like to see a mounted version too. Perhaps no shield specialization?

    Dante
    Tier 2, as powerful as a sorcerer? Like game-breaking sometimes? I would have thought more like Tier 3, in line with the Bard, Warblade, Crusader and Duskblade, or at least that's where I'm aiming at...

    Also, mounted fighting is kinda weird, I don't really know much about it, so help may be needed. At this point, I probably should call the class: The Foot-Knight. But, that's what I wanted out of this, a Knight that'd be able to fight on foot.

    I'm happy for you to do a variant of this for horseback, because at this point in time, I'd rather get the on-foot stuff worked out first.

    Also, I'd like suggestions for 9th, 13th and 19th level abilites, I'm kinda stretched for ideas at the moment....

    Edit: Wait, here comes something:

    Attack not the ally: A Knight is very protective of his companions, and will do almost anything to stop his enemies from hurting his companions. When he fails, he feels the need to punish the foes that caused his allies harm. After an enemy threatened by the Knight deals damage to an ally, the Knight may immediately attack that enemy, at his highest attack bonus. This can be used once per round.

    How does it sound? It'll happen at 13th level by the way.
    Last edited by Samm; 2010-05-27 at 06:02 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Bump...

    I've added Attack not the ally, but I need a couple more abilities, available at the 9th and 19th levels.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    Sorry for the triple post...

    I've got an idea, at either 9th level the Knight could gain this ability:

    I'll Cover You: A knight is very protective of his allies. At 9th level, as a swift action, he may provide cover to an adjacent ally or himself, using his shield. He does not gain the shield's bonus to AC if using this ability on an ally. If you are holding a tower-shield you may provide total cover to yourself, or an ally.

    How does it sound?
    Last edited by Samm; 2010-05-29 at 06:33 PM.

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    Planetar

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Knight: A Fix [PEACH]

    this seems quite good.
    There is one thing i find a bit odd though.
    Improved lunge makes the knight not loose his dex bonus to AC.
    From the little I know about knights, their dex would not be higher than 12.
    So it does not really seem very necessary.

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