Behind Every Monster Is a Person in a Cute Costume: Let's Play Moemon Leafgreen!

[Forum Explorer]

I wonder how the other Mellow would react to being brought back? And would the mushroom Mellow still be around? Scariest thought of all: What if this plan fails and Mellow breaks free?

[ScionoftheVoid]

Mellow's actually one of my favorite characters, too. She's funny and basically writes herself. But I take objection to that "only," which seem to me to be a bad case of fan blinders. Mellow's entertaining, but she'd be offended to hear you say that; everything she's ever said is deadly serious, and she's already effectively committed something not unlike murder. We can discuss Seed's ethics here (and there are a few things in her sense of justice that are legitimately worrying.), but only if you're willing to look at both parties for what they really are, what they want, and what they've done.

Mellow may want to do things many people would consider terrible, but Seed has always made sure she hasn't done them with little difficulty, as far as I can remember. And really, she only wants to improve the standing of herself and her fellow fungi in the world, is that really so bad? Mellow's worst act, "killing" her host, was not truly her choice, just her natural progression. Without Seed's help she may never have gotten strong enough to do it. Seed has trained Mellow along with everyone else, even knowing her goals and what she is willing to do, so if Mellow succeeds to any degree it is at least partially Seed's fault.

It's never been stated that the host suffers (again, as far as I can remember), even after "death", and indeed they may be incapable of suffering. I'm sure Seed would stop being conflicted about defeating trainers who have no chance against her (though that was technically resolved at least in the short term a while ago) and being saddened by Sage's death if she accepted one of Mellow's "gifts". And it goes further than that, too. Fungi presumably have no need for money, so slapping a mushroom on people like Giovanni would probably make the world a better place. Note that the above is purely for my own amusement and venting about the positives of a morality based on reducing suffering instead of one based on increasing life at all costs, you don't have to respond to it or take it seriously in any way.

In any case, I am very biased about this, and fully acknowledge that I'm not looking at it fairly. I just enjoy Mellow as a character and wanted to make a humourous and non-serious comment without appearing to be actually angry toward you. Apparently by choosing not to use multiple exclamation marks!! and suchlike I made you think I was being totally serious. Honestly, it would be sad to see Mellow go, but it would be a well-crafted, entertaining kind of sad, which I could look back on and see as an excellent piece of writing. It's like the ending of FFVII: Crisis Core, if it didn't happen that way it would probably be the worse for it. I know that, but it doesn't stop me feeling a bit (okay, more than a bit) sad when I watch it.

[Deme]

Mellow may want to do things many people would consider terrible, but Seed has always made sure she hasn't done them with little difficulty, as far as I can remember. And really, she only wants to improve the standing of herself and her fellow fungi in the world, is that really so bad? Mellow's worst act, "killing" her host, was not truly her choice, just her natural progression. Without Seed's help she may never have gotten strong enough to do it. Seed has trained Mellow along with everyone else, even knowing her goals and what she is willing to do, so if Mellow succeeds to any degree it is at least partially Seed's fault.

It's never been stated that the host suffers (again, as far as I can remember), even after "death", and indeed they may be incapable of suffering. I'm sure Seed would stop being conflicted about defeating trainers who have no chance against her (though that was technically resolved at least in the short term a while ago) and being saddened by Sage's death if she accepted one of Mellow's "gifts". And it goes further than that, too. Fungi presumably have no need for money, so slapping a mushroom on people like Giovanni would probably make the world a better place. Note that the above is purely for my own amusement and venting about the positives of a morality based on reducing suffering instead of one based on increasing life at all costs, you don't have to respond to it or take it seriously in any way.

In any case, I am very biased about this, and fully acknowledge that I'm not looking at it fairly. I just enjoy Mellow as a character and wanted to make a humourous and non-serious comment without appearing to be actually angry toward you. Apparently by choosing not to use multiple exclamation marks!! and suchlike I made you think I was being totally serious. Honestly, it would be sad to see Mellow go, but it would be a well-crafted, entertaining kind of sad, which I could look back on and see as an excellent piece of writing. It's like the ending of FFVII: Crisis Core, if it didn't happen that way it would probably be the worse for it. I know that, but it doesn't stop me feeling a bit (okay, more than a bit) sad when I watch it.

...Aren't you the one taking it too seriously at this point? I never was angry -- you make your points for the sake of fun, I make mine for the sake of accuracy. And because nothing makes me happier than explaining my own ideas, egotistical maniac that I am. Besides... On the internet, no one can hear you joke, and real people make argugents without taking the whole thing into account sincerely and seriously every single day. I mean, look at the "Draco in Leather Pants" phenomen! And with multiple exclamation points, too. That only makes you look more serious.

I wasn't even objecting to your statements as a whole, just that "only." Mellow isn't "only" helpful, though she has been helpful.

Though, as an unrelated side-note... I'm pretty sure it's stated that Mellow's coup plans are at least in part of a violent nature. Or did I never actually say that, but instead only think it loudly? Because I'm not sure how well a 'minimizing suffering' argument works in that scenario.



Edit: I'd also like to add that even I don't think Seed's morality is squeaky clean. One of the things that she hasn't acknowledged, but I have, is that her sense of justice is somewhat more focused on "punishing the guilty" than "protecting the innocent." A potential bad ending of this story would be her going all knight templar, I'd think: because whenever she's dealing with someone like the bikers or Mellow or Giovanni, or even Chelle had Chelle not said "No, I'm not in for world-conquering, even for a good cause, anymore," a certain bit of her, somewhere in her subconcious, is thinking about how her father got away. That's how I've been seeing it for a while. It's probably something she should confront at some point.



Also, and this is my big 'word of god' voice here (not to be confused with my casual "this is my two-cents, as if I weren't god" voice), had Mellow done any of the following things, Seed would not have done what she's doing here:
1) Shown any indication that she's interested in getting what she wants via non-violent or non-invasive means.
2) Shown anything other than pleasure and delight at destroying stuff for her glorious cause, such as with the plants.
3) Not deliberately tried to destroy Seed's conciousness and enslave her body.
Not even all three (after all, Mellow has a good reason for rejecting non-violence, and Mellow didn't know Seed well back then, and all pokemon like fighting and breaking stuff, even if she's not a pokemon so much as an evil mushroom). Just 1 would have been enough to convince Seed that Mellow could maybe be talked to the side of not-evil. There are probably cute alternate-universe stories there. Maybe even one where everyone's in high school.

[FantasyFoxMan]

To hell with Growlithe, I'm voting for Grimer.

I love Grimer. :3

I love Poison-types in general, but Grimer's my favorite in Gen 1, hence why I voted for it. :V

[Dusk Eclipse]

Get the fire breathing puppy!!! If you don't understand why I would want a fire breathing puppy, I am not sure I want to associate with you any longer.

[Mando Knight]

Maybe even one where everyone's in high school.

There is always one where everyone's in high school.

[Penguinator]

To hell with Growlithe, I'm voting for Grimer.

I love Grimer. :3

I love Poison-types in general, but Grimer's my favorite in Gen 1, hence why I voted for it. :V

As long as it isn't that creepy Weezing, it's fine.

[originalpimp]

Looking at relationships alone in this LP it already feels like they're all in high school.

Edit: Not that that's a bad thing.

[Deme]

Well, yes, but Seed very rarely gets to bring Beau home-made box lunches while blushing and going "I just made extra, and you look like a stick-bug-man, so take it, already!" Also, Spike doesn't get to wear a letterman's jacket, or even a Greaser-style white shirt, black leather jacket affair.

There could also be an alternate universe where everyone's alignment is reversed... Ok, I admit that actually wouldn't change anything, since the bulk of the cast would ping as some form of neutral, but there you go.

I'm not good at coming up with alternate universes.

[banthesun]

I'm not good at coming up with alternate universes.

Poppycock! Just stick everyone on a spaceship and call it a day!

[Forum Explorer]

Well, yes, but Seed very rarely gets to bring Beau home-made box lunches while blushing and going "I just made extra, and you look like a stick-bug-man, so take it, already!" Also, Spike doesn't get to wear a letterman's jacket, or even a Greaser-style white shirt, black leather jacket affair.

There could also be an alternate universe where everyone's alignment is reversed... Ok, I admit that actually wouldn't change anything, since the bulk of the cast would ping as some form of neutral, but there you go.

I'm not good at coming up with alternate universes.

An alternate universe where they are all pilots of Pokemon shaped mecha with Captain Seed exploring a dangerous galaxy to find the cure for the disease that plauges their home planet of Sage.

[Destro_Yersul]

But how would you explain evolutions?

[AlterForm]

But how would you explain evolutions?

Spiral Power!

[Destro_Yersul]

Spiral Power!

That would be?

[fizzmaister]

That would be?

It's from tengen toppa gurren lagann. And amazing mecha show, where everything runs on the rule of cool and spiral energy.

[John Cribati]

It's from tengen toppa gurren lagann. And amazing mecha show, where everything runs on the rule of cool Ridiculous and spiral energy.

Fixed. See Here

[Mando Knight]

An alternate universe where they are all pilots of Pokemon shaped mecha with Captain Seed exploring a dangerous galaxy to find the cure for the disease that plauges their home planet of Sage.

Bonus points if you can identify the 'Mechs that were painted for this...

[Forum Explorer]

watch it now or follow along Dust's let's watch in the Media section of the forum.

Evolutions could be the customary mid season upgrade.

The Pokeball is Krang's ship from TMNT

[AlterForm]

Fixed. See Here

Or for a more immediate demonstration of the power of Spiral Energy, try this. (Apologies for the ad if it shows up; I couldn't find a video that actually showed the combining instead of the fail-combine just before)

[EDIT]: Although any further gushing over the series really ought to be contained in Dust's thread, or the General Anime thread.

[Deme]

You assume they'd have to evolve; this is an alternate universe, after all. They mey just come in their final forms. Or the poke-mechs could recieve updates.

I lie: there is one alternate universe I can think of clearly, because it's a "what could have been" about this story. In that world, when I would have said it would get darker, I would have meant "It would have gotten a lot darker," as opposed to "It's going to get a little teensy bit more serious and conflicted," or whatever it is I meant. Seed's questions of her own sanity would never be resolved, and as a result, her relationships with her pokemon would be more fretful. The Pokemon Fanclub Head would claim to see the same things Seed does, and be having a full-blown affair with his Rapidash... Which could be comforting, but the way everyone thinks he's crazy doesn't help her spirits much. That conflict would be the main one of the series, with Seed freaking out and melting down a few more times, and a lot more catostrophically. The ending would be shown in two mutually-contradictive lights. The first is one where all of this is true, which, to be honest, wasn't as clear in my head as it is now -- I didn't have much of the story-arc worked out at the time, except for this conflict. The second is that it's all her own growing madness, and either would end with a hand-drawn shot of her smiling madly up at the camera in a dark cave somewhere, all alone... Or with the reveal that she had actually committed suicide the night before the story starts, and this is all her trying to find peace in the last moments as her brain shuts down. I wasn't sure which I'd prefer, though I love final shots of characters smiling madly. It's a weakness.

I do not remember the exact point this version story died. I think somewhere in the gap between Pewter and Cerulean -- it was still alive as late as Viridian Forest, I think. In fact, I'm going to guess that by the time Spike was introduced, it was on its deathbed, and by the time Terra came along, it was deader than dirt, and larger elements of the current story-arc were in my head firmly. The point where I buried it, I'd say, was, of course, the Cerulean Act-Opening Bonus Part. Once I did that, there was no going back to that idea, and so now it's an alternate universe, possibly even two linked alternate universe, which includes an alternate universe me.

[Mando Knight]

The Pokeball is Krang's ship from TMNT

Given that the 'Mechs are pulled from BattleTech, I'm pretty sure that it's actually a Union-class DropShip. (BattleTech: Beating the MegaMan.EXE series to CamelCase by nearly 20 years)

[Forum Explorer]

Given that the 'Mechs are pulled from BattleTech, I'm pretty sure that it's actually a Union-class DropShip. (BattleTech: Beating the MegaMan.EXE series to CamelCase by nearly 20 years)

Well of course I could be very wrong.

Back to the alternate series I was picturing them as ordinary humans who just had pokemon shaped mechs. Evolutions are just upgrades. And I'm really intrested in this being made somehow.

[fizzmaister]

Well, I'm happy we got the "soap opera of cute" version of the story rather than the dark version. I know "true art is angsty" and all that, but really I prefer to see happy outcomes. That doesn't mean there can't be struggles or even tragedy along the way; a well written bittersweet ending or "earn your happy ending" is usually much more powerful than sunshine and lollipops.

[Destro_Yersul]

It's from tengen toppa gurren lagann. And amazing mecha show, where everything runs on the rule of cool and spiral energy.

Ah, that explains it. I don't like Gurren Lagann.

[Mando Knight]

Ah, that explains it. I don't like Gurren Lagann.

I would say something like "Seriously, though," but serious isn't a word I would use when trying to describe why one should like TTGL.

[fizzmaister]

Well of course I could be very wrong.

Back to the alternate series I was picturing them as ordinary humans who just had pokemon shaped mechs. Evolutions are just upgrades. And I'm really intrested in this being made somehow.

Someone was working on that, don't know if they're still working on it but here's the forum. http://s1.zetaboards.com/Super_Pocket_Mechas/index/

[FantasyFoxMan]

I love final shots of characters smiling madly. It's a weakness.

You're not the only one.

[Hunter Noventa]

Someone was working on that, don't know if they're still working on it but here's the forum. http://s1.zetaboards.com/Super_Pocket_Mechas/index/

Considering the last post was nearly a year ago, I'd say no. Of course, they went crazy and tried to make in in RPG maker rather than hack a rom.

I could do it, if I could get backsprites made. Pokemon: SRW Edition.

[fizzmaister]

You could use their excuse and say "no one wants to look at a backsprite" and just use front sprites.

[Tome]

Considering the last post was nearly a year ago, I'd say no. Of course, they went crazy and tried to make in in RPG maker rather than hack a rom.

I could do it, if I could get backsprites made. Pokemon: SRW Edition.

I'm pretty good with sprites. If you really felt like doing it, I'd be happy to contribute.