Would you pay for a DM?

[Cookiemobsta]

I think we can all agree that the difference between a good DM and a bad DM is often the difference between a good game and a bad game. Although of course the players have a great deal to do with the quality of the game, generally there is a high correlation between the quality of the DM (including the work they put into the game, their skill at storytelling, their ability to manage the players, etc) and the fun that everyone has in the game.

My question is, is that higher level of fun from a great DM something that you would be willing to pay for? This is purely a hypothetical question; I've never heard of a "professional" DM. But to me, the idea makes sense. Let's say you've got three friends who all enjoy playing dnd. The four of you want to start a new campaign. Now, all of you are busy, and none of you are expert dms. One option is for one of you to volunteer to DM, cobble something together during your free time, and then run the game. You'd probably still have fun--but the person who is DMing might wish that they were playing, and if they weren't an experienced DM there might be problems with the way they run the game.

The other option is for you to hire a professional DM. This is a person who spends hours developing each campaign he or she runs (although honestly, if we're talking about a professional DM, we could probably just say "he" here), a person who has DMed dozens of campaigns. They know how to make a deep, involving, fun game. And if each of you chips in 5 or 6 bucks a session, you won't even notice the amount over what you're paying for pizza and mountain dew.

Would you consider hiring this person, this hypothetical professional DM? I'm interested more in your reasoning than in a straight yes or no; so whatever you choose, tell me why.

And for the more business-minded among you--it probably wouldn't be possible to be a "professional" DM and to support yourself on DMing. If you're curious as to the specifics you can PM me, but basically it would be very hard to find anyone willing to pay you for all of the hours you work--since not only are you running the sessions themselves, but you're putting lots of time into prepwork. A good professional DM would probably develop a few campaigns and then run them for every new group that hired him so the prepwork would be limited, but there would still need to be some work to tailor the campaign to the unique group. So you can estimate that every week you're working 4-5 hours to DM the session itself, plus another 2-3 hours of prep time. If you get paid 10 dollars an hour, the gaming group has to fork over about 80 bucks a week for your services, which few people would be willing to do. So you'd probably have to wind up charging only 20 a week or so, which means that you're only making 5 dollars an hour, which is worse than minimum wage.

But for someone who enjoys DMing, this could be a lucrative side hobby. If you're always getting asked to DM anyway, why not polish your DM skills a bit, advertise yourself as a professional DM, and make some money while you have fun?

[Cyrion]

I wouldn't pay for a DM simply because I've always been in games where the DM was good enough for everyone to have fun. Even the ones who were so paranoid about character power that they made sure first level wizards didn't get magic missile.

Nor would I want to be a professional DM. No matter how good you are at creating awe-inspiring worlds and adventures and plots, the players are, at some point, likely to say "But I'm paying you- my character should get/be able to do X!" It's all downhill from there.

[Caliphbubba]

I have paid and been paid to run LARP games before, so yes I could see doing this with a tabletop DM if he/she was very good OR there was some expense involved in running the game like there is for a LARP.

That being said, the 'payment' even for a LARP never much more than covered the cost of rent a site to play at and often times it didn't even meet that, so I ended up 'paying' to RUN the game.

[Adumbration]

I recall, ages past, there was someone on these forums who tried this. Didn't work out so well, though - but can't remember the specifics. Sorry.

[Comet]

The Game Master usually gets free food and drinks around here. But that's it, the notion of paying a GM or being a GM for hire myself makes no sense to me.

Firstly, as has already been said, making the game 'business' creates a sense of entitlement in the players.
"I paid you, but your campaign isn't fun enough! Change things or give me my money back!"

Secondly, the GM is probably using someone else's intellectual property to create the adventures he offers. This thread in particular has used the term 'Dungeon Master' in place of 'Game Master', implying that we're talking about Dungeons & Dragons, a ready-to-use game system that is made by an outside source.
Something about taking a pre-created rule system (and perhaps even a campaign setting!) and earning money by using it doesn't sit right with me. I could be wrong, but I think there's a violation of some kind in there.

So, no. Roleplaying games should be all about the fun, in my opinion. Making it all 'serious' and 'business' can only lead to dissapointment.

That's not to say the players shouldn't reward the GM at every possible turn, though! A free pizza and a genuine 'thank you' are all I need to keep running games for all eternity.

[Gnaeus]

So you can estimate that every week you're working 4-5 hours to DM the session itself, plus another 2-3 hours of prep time. If you get paid 10 dollars an hour, the gaming group has to fork over about 80 bucks a week for your services, which few people would be willing to do. So you'd probably have to wind up charging only 20 a week or so, which means that you're only making 5 dollars an hour, which is worse than minimum wage.

That is 4-5$ an hour of play time (20/4=5, 20/5=4). When you add in prep time, you are closer to server wage, but without the tips.

But for someone who enjoys DMing, this could be a lucrative side hobby. If you're always getting asked to DM anyway, why not polish your DM skills a bit, advertise yourself as a professional DM, and make some money while you have fun?

Good luck with that. I don't know anyone who has been able to make that work. I will echo Caliph that I have run LARPs that people paid to play, but those fees very rarely exceeded costs (And when they did, they were usually farmed immediately into the NEXT game). It is remotely possible to make money running large games at cons, but I'm pretty sure in almost all cases you would make more per hour bagging produce at a grocery store.

Edit: And those games are a LOT of work. It isn't like sitting down with your friends and running a local game. If people pay, they want to have a good time, all the time. They feel justified in bitching at you in a way that no one would do to their buddy who is volunteering. It can be a long way from the delightful scenario of being paid to game that you suggest.

[Thefurmonger]

I'll go against the grain and say that yes, I would be happy to pay for a good quality game.

I can see paying 10$ for a 4-6 hour session, 6 players gives the DM 60$, not bad.

I however would expect a hell of a good story, visual aids, perhaps some music, etc.

in other words if I pay you to be a professional, I expect a professionaly run game.

[Starscream]

Only thing a DM has ever gotten out of me is pizza. I certainly wouldn't expect to be paid to DM, nor would I pay someone else to do it.

[VirOath]

Along the terms of payment and income rate for a Professional DM at $4-5 bucks a player per hour, or hell, just a 3-4 hour game session once a week. Assuming that campaign can be dealt with during that day, we will toss in 3 more groups doing the same with this Professional DM. Now on it's own that isn't very impressive, more of a hobby than a business.

But, if you are serious then the adventures created can be sold as their own IP (Be it adventure modules or novels). So now it is closer to an author being paid to use inspiration. Now all of this income is directly bias to the quality of the world created, and even so one shouldn't expect to quit their dayjob for this.

The group I'm playing with has 3 people that alternate being DMs for different campaigns and each have their own styles and flaws. I'd be interested in trying out a payed DM for a one shot to see how they were.

Edit: And yes, I realize that at the top there is no room for work either. That's just the silly part of the idea being pointed out.

[HunterOfJello]

I pay for all other forms of entertainment. If I could have some really fun games, then I'd try it.

[Telonius]

I recall, ages past, there was someone on these forums who tried this. Didn't work out so well, though - but can't remember the specifics. Sorry.

I recall that as well.

Anyway, I think you're going to run into the same sort of problem as fee-based internet news. You have to have some kind of seriously good gimmick if you're going to charge for something that other people are giving away for free. It does work in some limited number of cases - Wall Street Journal, for instance, has content that nobody else does, so they can charge for it. If DMming for cash is going to work, your gimmick has to be something that's big enough to be noticeable and actually superior to what people are willing to do for free on their own time.

Convenience could be part of that, but IMO it's not enough to seal the deal. Especially with things like Skype and PbP forums, these days you don't even have to be in the same country as your DM, and you can still have a decent session. (In fact I just DMmed my first game with one of our players connecting by webcam).

[Akal Saris]

I'd be willing to pay up to $10/session for a DM if he came highly recommended from my personal friends and I liked the idea of the game he was providing. That's on par with a 1/week movie night, give or take.

I never get to play in a high-powered 3.5 game, and rarely get to play rather than DM at all, especially now that I live in a new area. But I'm also a full time grad student with very little cash, so I can't do more than support the DM for the gas and snacks he probably bought to host the game.

I would DM for cash myself, if I had the free time and inclination. But I can get more money from my current 2 part-time jobs than I would make DMing, and I don't want to go through the effort to turn my hobby into another job :P Especially since I'm picky about my PCs and have no desire to play with most gamers I meet...

[Winter_Wolf]

I'd quit playing before a paid someone to DM a game.

A big difference between a DM and, say, some form of software application, is that I can use the software whenever I want. You don't have that option with a DM. Three a.m. on a Wednesday, and I want to play? Sure, turn on the computer and away I go. Call up anyone with a normal schedule at 3 a.m. and demand a game and see how far that gets you.

Then there's the issue of satisfaction. If the game sucks, do I get my money back? What if the DM cancels? What if I cancel? I cannot think of a single circumstance under which I would ever give a DM money to run a game. My books, I have to buy them. The food, I chip in if we're getting food. The place, sometimes might well end up being mine. Should I charge rent for playing in my home?

If I pay for, say, martial arts lessons, it's because I'm learning something from the instructor, which I can still practice on my own when I'm not in class. You can't play without a DM. Or, if you can, then why are you paying that schmuck in the first place?

[Shademan]

Am I the only one who keeps thinking about prostitution?
switch out the word DM with prostitute in any of the above posts and have a giggle!

[The J Pizzel]

The Game Master usually gets free food and drinks around here.

That's how it is with our group. I'm the DM and they never let me chip in for pizza and drinks. They say it's just their little way of saying thanks for me putting in all the work of coming up with campaigns, designing bad guys, etc. They know it takes time to do all that and they appreciate it.

Yeah. I have a great group.

[Darklord Xavez]

I wouldn't hire a DM, because if they don't know me, why do they have any motivation besides the cash to make me have fun?
-Xavez

[Alleine]

I would maybe pay to have the same DM as SilverClawShift. Though I wouldn't pay regularly, probably just get him stuff as a thank you for being awesome. And that is what I consider to be one of the best tabletop experiences I've seen. If you don't know about these campaigns, google it or do a search through the forums.

[Nero24200]

No, I wouldn't pay for a DM. To me, it's the equivilent of paying the other kids on the street to play football with me.

[Lin Bayaseda]

I think we all agree that it's acceptable to pay a golf pro for a lesson, and it's stupid to pay a golf partner for playing a round of golf with you.

So the question is, what is the DM? Is he a professional guide, or a partner? I'd say he's much closer to a partner than to a pro. Admittedly, he's the kind of partner who brings the golf clubs, reserves the course, and keeps score for everyone, but still a partner. I just can't see a DM (any DM) on the same level as a golf pro.

Free pizza and a hearty "thanks man, cool game!" should be enough of a payment.

[Hendel]

No and I won't pay for a subscription to a game when I already bought the rule book either!

[Gnaeus]

I think it is acceptable to pay a DM to run a game. If I won the lottery, I might consider keeping a DM on retainer. I DON'T think that DMing for money is a workable scheme for anyone who doesn't have a large supplemental income unrelated to work (like disability or a huge trust fund). There just aren't enough gamers who have won the lottery (I guess we are too good at statistics).

[Theodoriph]

I recall, ages past, there was someone on these forums who tried this. Didn't work out so well, though - but can't remember the specifics. Sorry.

I was just about to bring that up. =)


As to the OP. No I wouldn't. There is no amount of DM talent that warrants being paid more than the pizza and pop that our group usually buys (whichever of us is DMing doesn't have to chip in!).


Edit: There is one exception. If it's like a celebrity DM running a brief campaign with all proceeds are going to charity, then it would be acceptable.

[Nero24200]

Edit: There is one exception. If it's like a celebrity DM running a brief campaign with all proceeds are going to charity, then it would be acceptable.

Guess your've kinda got something there. I wouldn't mind chipping in to have Mr Moviephone start off our campaign with "In a world without justice..."

[Ernir]

Am I the only one who keeps thinking about prostitution?

Ooooooh, no you're not.

[Daimbert]

I think we all agree that it's acceptable to pay a golf pro for a lesson, and it's stupid to pay a golf partner for playing a round of golf with you.

You know, when you put it that way ... I'm not as opposed to it anymore [grin].

Okay, in all seriousness, I think this is a great example. A golf pro teaches you the game and how to improve your game. Going to a golf pro is not having fun; it's getting yourself better so that you can have fun later. But a golf partner is someone that you have fun with. And it's somewhat odd to think that you pay someone to have fun with you.

But, imagine that you don't have an friends or family who golf, and you hate getting into random foursomes all the time. And you know of someone that you kinda get along with who plays, but it wouldn't be worth their time to come out. Could you pay them?

I think that, like the DM, paying them is a bad idea, and it's bad to pay a stranger to golf with you or DM for you. You have no idea what you're getting, no idea if your personalities and playstyles are compatible, and likely will just end up getting possibly a fun but somewhat impersonal experience.

BUT, what might work is the few things that people say are done here. Find someone who's a good or decent DM that you get along with, and make it less of a problem for them to DM for you. Pay for their food. Give them rides. Slip them bus fare or gas money. If they're willing to put the effort into running a game, pay back their time and effort somehow, so that you don't seem like parasites taking all the fun and leaving them all the work. And that can even happen if they kinda ENJOY DM'ing.

I don't see professional DM'ing catching on, mostly because it'd take too much work for what people are willing to pay to make it really good, and you run the risk of making something great but not for them that makes them very unhappy with the money they spent.

[Daimbert]

Ooooooh, no you're not.

I take great pride in the fact that my reply is, in fact, consistent with that interpretation [grin].

[WeLoveFireballs]

My group once did hire a DM. But the advantage of him was he was not paranoid about power, he would allow anything at first and if the group agreed it was broken then away it went. He made jokes was just about as good as DM's got he even played calvinball with us once (our group is fairly young). He was not a "Proffesional" DM he was just hard on money and needed a reason to justify himself not getting another job. If you are able to get someone like this then it's pretty good.

[Lev]

Paying in money is a little insulting for the community, but a new player not brining snacks is a little empty handed too, a general rule to keep is that the DM has invested more time to host the game, if it's also his house then he shouldn't have to pay for snacks, but he should at least chip in for a full meal like groceries or ordering in.

[Telonius]

But, imagine that you don't have an friends or family who golf, and you hate getting into random foursomes all the time.

Sorry man, I just read the post about prostitution before I read this one.

[IonDragon]

I could see paying maybe $5 as an entrance fee or some such to a really well run game. Like with 3D dungeon tiles, a good selection of painted minis, and a well lit, furnished, and stocked room. Then having a tips jar by the door for on the way out. Now THAT would be something worth doing. I suppose if you're getting all that, like at a con I could pay a little more.

Contracting with a GM for a game and setting a pay rate seems like a kinda bad idea, however if you have a REALLY GOOD GM it wouldn't be bad to set up some form of payment.