[3.5] spellsword build

[Darklord Xavez]

This is somewhat a consolidation of these three threads.
So yeah.
I'm making a spellsword character, and I need some help. Here is what I have so far:
Human
Battle Sorcerer 15/Abjurant Champion 5
Ability scores:
Strength 15
Dexterity 17
Constitution 14
Intelligence 12
Wisdom 10
Charisma 18
Feats:
{table=head]Level|Feats Gained
1|Born Hero, Negotiator, Dodge, Mobility
3|Eschew Materials
6|Improved Toughness
9|Combat Casting
12|Battle Caster
15|Arcane Strike
18|Empower Spell[/table]
Any other suggestions?
-Xavez

[Eronai_Jantig]

Are those your starting scores? Also your going Fighter first level for the bonus feat/hit die increase right?

[Godskook]

I...but...you're doing it....ARGhgoaigpaokwobgnaow..........

Find a happy place, find a happy place, find a happy place.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Why do you have more than one level of Spellsword? Loosing 4 caster levels is not worth anything you could possibly gain...

[Jarian]

I...but...you're doing it....ARGhgoaigpaokwobgnaow..........

This is very likely to be the general theme of most responses you get. Are you willing to tweak your build slightly while still maintaining the martial caster theme? Because, you know... Abjurant Champion, etc.

[Darklord Xavez]

Why do you have more than one level of Spellsword? Loosing 4 caster levels is not worth anything you could possibly gain...

I am building my character to do some combat and some spellcasting, as well as wear armor without spell failure chances. And it is better to give up 4 caster levels than to lose all of them by switching to fighter, and I don't like the eldritch knight.
-Xavez

[Mongoose87]

Would you be willing to only take one level of Spellsword, switch around a bunch of your feats, and feel the Pwnage that is Abjurant Champion?

[Darklord Xavez]

Are those your starting scores? Also your going Fighter first level for the bonus feat/hit die increase right?

As well as weapon/armor proficiencies for the spellsword.
-Xavez

[Eronai_Jantig]

Good, okay, unlike some of the others I fully understand why you'd hit the spell sword as a choice, let me see if I can whip something up, also I do need to know if those are starting or final scores, and whats up with the commoner thing? I'm assuming the Born Hero is a bonus feat?

Edit: Though I fully admit, going spell sword is suboptimal, it can be fun.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

My advice: Go Full Elf or Human, instead of half-elf, as this will make a lot of things easier for you. Class progression should go something like this: Sorcerer 4/Eldritch Knight 3/Abjurant Champion 5/EK+7/Whatever 1

Feats
1st: Otherwordly
(H: Power Attack)
3th: Sanctum Spell
6th: Combat Casting
9th: Extend Spell
12th+: Something along the lines of Persistent Spell or something that'll boost Power Attack for fun and profit.

This is pretty standard gish stuff. You could go the Sorcadin route, going Paladin 2/Sorcerer X, where X is enough to meet the spell requirements of Sacred Exorcist/Sacred Exorcist Y/Abjurant Champion 5. Grab a devotion feat or two and enjoy yourself.

Now, if you must have Spellsword on the table, I recommend using the first build stub, grab some Dodge-variant feat and use the Otyugh Hole to get Iron Will, take a level of Dragonslayer to qualify for Spellsword, then take no more than 3 levels of Spellsword.


Will link a handbook later.

[Darklord Xavez]

Would you be willing to only take one level of Spellsword, switch around a bunch of your feats, and feel the Pwnage that is Abjurant Champion?

What is Abjurant Champion?
-Xavez

[Thrice Dead Cat]

What is Abjurant Champion?
-Xavez

Short answer: Awesome.

Longer answer: A five level long PrC from Complete Mage that is 5/5 casting, Good BAB, d10 HD, and class abilities that boost AC granting spells.

[Darklord Xavez]

My advice: Go Full Elf or Human, instead of half-elf, as this will make a lot of things easier for you. Class progression should go something like this: Sorcerer 4/Eldritch Knight 3/Abjurant Champion 5/EK+7/Whatever 1

Feats
1st: Otherwordly
(H: Power Attack)
3th: Sanctum Spell
6th: Combat Casting
9th: Extend Spell
12th+: Something along the lines of Persistent Spell or something that'll boost Power Attack for fun and profit.

This is pretty standard gish stuff. You could go the Sorcadin route, going Paladin 2/Sorcerer X, where X is enough to meet the spell requirements of Sacred Exorcist/Sacred Exorcist Y/Abjurant Champion 5. Grab a devotion feat or two and enjoy yourself.

Now, if you must have Spellsword on the table, I recommend using the first build stub, grab some Dodge-variant feat and use the Otyugh Hole to get Iron Will, take a level of Dragonslayer to qualify for Spellsword, then take no more than 3 levels of Spellsword.


Will link a handbook later.

Because of campaign-specific rules, first 10 levels must be one class. And my character is somewhat based on negotiating, so I want my half-elf.
-Xavez

[Mongoose87]

Abjurant Champion is a PrC found in Complete Mage. It has 5/5 spellcasting, full BaB and a d10 HD. It also gives you some nice abilities, like casting Abjurantion spells as a quick action.v It's a must for any Arcane Gish, really.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Because of campaign-specific rules, first 10 levels must be one class. And my character is somewhat based on negotiating, so I want my half-elf.
-Xavez

Okay, then give me a minute to find a link to something that can actually work with 10 levels of Sorcerer while retaining at least 16 BAB pre-epic.

Truly this is something to fear.

EDIT: As for the negotiating, I can only give one word: spells.

[tyckspoon]

I am building my character to do some combat and some spellcasting, as well as wear armor without spell failure chances. And it is better to give up 4 caster levels than to lose all of them by switching to fighter, and I don't like the eldritch knight.
-Xavez

A mithral Breastplate is wearable with 0% spell failure at Spellsword 3, if you can't manage to get one of the armor templates to take that other 5% off for you. There's no reason to take Spellsword any higher than that unless you're obsessed about getting 0% failure full plate, and honestly, with Dex as your highest physical score you probably will do better with the breastplate. That'd open up 6 levels to use on.. probably Abjurant Champion, since you're already considering taking Combat Casting.

If you're ok with saccing that many caster levels, tho.. have you considered Swiftblade?

[Godskook]

I am building my character to do some combat and some spellcasting, as well as wear armor without spell failure chances. And it is better to give up 4 caster levels than to lose all of them by switching to fighter, and I don't like the eldritch knight.
-Xavez

Try a Sorcadin.

Base: Sorc 4/Pal 2(any order, really)

Prestige: Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8

You can replace Sacred Exorcist with any other decent full-caster prestige class, but good luck finding a better one.

Notables:
-9th level spellcasting by L20
-16 BAB, enabling all four BAB attacks by L20, losing BAB twice during sorc levels and twice again during SE levels(When you're gaining turning and high level spells, so oh well)
-Cha to saves
-Arcane Preperation gets you Greater Luminous Armor, which is 1.Full Plate, 2.An Abjuration, 3.Gives a -4 to melee attacks against you.
-Turning for divine might or travel devotion
-Ability to get Cha to AC with 2 feats(Improved unarmed strike + Ascetic Mage). Since you never actually wear armor(GLA for the win!), this stacks.
-Possibility of persistent Mirror Move, for up to four free fighter feats from core(So you can qualify for a Heroics(Shock Trooper) without spending feats on Power Attack).

Ok, I'm done.

Adds a bit of holy warrior to the mix, but if that's the only problem with it, I can find other, non-Sorcadin gish builds for you to look at, ones that do gish well.

Because of campaign-specific rules, first 10 levels must be one class. And my character is somewhat based on negotiating, so I want my half-elf.
-Xavez

Ok, I missed this. This sucks. Your DM has gimped gish builds into near-dust. However, the above build still 'works', just with 6 levels less of Sacred Exorcist, which were entirely pre-epic filler.

[Darklord Xavez]

A mithral Breastplate is wearable with 0% spell failure at Spellsword 3, if you can't manage to get one of the armor templates to take that other 5% off for you. There's no reason to take Spellsword any higher than that unless you're obsessed about getting 0% failure full plate, and honestly, with Dex as your highest physical score you probably will do better with the breastplate. That'd open up 6 levels to use on.. probably Abjurant Champion, since you're already considering taking Combat Casting.

If you're ok with saccing that many caster levels, tho.. have you considered Swiftblade?

First: I really want somebody to give me a link for the Abjurant Champion. I've only gotten a generic description so far, and I don't think the DM will let me by with that. But you have a good point. Until I get Mithral Breastplate, I'll go with studded leather.
Thank you for your input,
Xavez

[Darklord Xavez]

Try a Sorcadin.

Base: Sorc 4/Pal 2(any order, really)

Prestige: Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8

You can replace Sacred Exorcist with any other decent full-caster prestige class, but good luck finding a better one.

Notables:
-9th level spellcasting by L20
-16 BAB, enabling all four BAB attacks by L20, losing BAB twice during sorc levels and twice again during SE levels(When you're gaining turning and high level spells, so oh well)
-Cha to saves
-Arcane Preperation gets you Greater Luminous Armor, which is 1.Full Plate, 2.An Abjuration, 3.Gives a -4 to melee attacks against you.
-Turning for divine might or travel devotion
-Ability to get Cha to AC with 2 feats(Improved unarmed strike + Ascetic Mage). Since you never actually wear armor(GLA for the win!), this stacks.
-Possibility of persistent Mirror Move, for up to four free fighter feats from core(So you can qualify for a Heroics(Shock Trooper) without spending feats on Power Attack).

Ok, I'm done.

Adds a bit of holy warrior to the mix, but if that's the only problem with it, I can find other, non-Sorcadin gish builds for you to look at, ones that do gish well.

First: what is gish?

Second: I have to take my first 10 levels in one class because of campaign-specific rules.
-Xavez

[Dr.Epic]

Half-elf? Really? I mean why not go human: you get bonus feats and more skill points as opposed to half-elves who just get some skill bonuses you could easily compensate for with your extra feat and/or skill points.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

First: what is gish?

Second: I have to take my first 10 levels in one class because of campaign-specific rules.
-Xavez

1) Gish is a 'does both fighting and magic' build, leftover from a mis-prounciation of 'Gith' referring to the fact that 1e Githyanki and Githzeri did both magic (before they were psionic) and fighting very well.

2) What if it is only a five-level prestige class? Can you go Sorc/Fighter/AbChamp5/Spellsword1?

[Jarian]

Because of campaign-specific rules, first 10 levels must be one class. And my character is somewhat based on negotiating, so I want my half-elf.
-Xavez

Less likely to work option:

Spoiler

Show

Dragonwrought Wyrm Of War Desert Kobold
Sorcerer10/Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 4

Wyrm of War to avoid Loredrake controversy, though your DM has to be okay with Dragonwrought kobolds qualifying for Sovereign Archetypes for this to work. Wyrm of War grants full proficiency with all martial weapons and all types of armor, and gives you a bonus fighter or draconic-themed feat every 5 levels.

More likely to work option:

Spoiler

Show

Changeling Wizard 10/Fighter 1/Runesmith 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 3

Changelings have to be the best face characters ever. I highly recommend playing one over a *shudder* half-elf.

Take the feat in Races of Eberron that allows you to qualify as a member of whatever race you choose to emulate. Emulate a Dwarf. You now qualify for Runesmith without being an ugly Dwarf.

Wizards work much better than Sorcerers with a Runesmith, but you could play a Sorcerer if you really wanted to.

[Darklord Xavez]

Half-elf? Really? I mean why not go human: you get bonus feats and more skill points as opposed to half-elves who just get some skill bonuses you could easily compensate for with your extra feat and/or skill points.

I'm going for a character who is good with defeating foes, but even better at gaining allies.
-Xavez

[Darklord Xavez]

Less likely to work option:

Spoiler

Show

Dragonwrought Wyrm Of War Desert Kobold
Sorcerer10/Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 4

Wyrm of War to avoid Loredrake controversy, though your DM has to be okay with Dragonwrought kobolds qualifying for Sovereign Archetypes for this to work. Wyrm of War grants full proficiency with all martial weapons and all types of armor, and gives you a bonus fighter or draconic-themed feat every 5 levels.

More likely to work option:

Spoiler

Show

Changeling Wizard 10/Fighter 1/Runesmith 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 3

Changelings have to be the best face characters ever. I highly recommend playing one over a *shudder* half-elf.

Take the feat in Races of Eberron that allows you to qualify as a member of whatever race you choose to emulate. Emulate a Dwarf. You now qualify for Runesmith without being an ugly Dwarf.

Wizards work much better than Sorcerers with a Runesmith, but you could play a Sorcerer if you really wanted to.

First: I don't think the DM will allow Kobolds or Changelings in a Commoner campaign. We eventually retrain our commoner levels for other NPC classes, and then retrain those in to PC classes.

Second: Half-Elves are a balanced race along with other races, but most PCs rarely use Diplomacy or Gather Information.
-Xavez

[Jarian]

What does race have to do with being a poor-as-dirt Commoner?

[Darklord Xavez]

What does race have to do with being a poor-as-dirt Commoner?

Because I don't think a Dragonwrought War Wyrm Kobold would be living in a farming village. I'll ask the DM.
-Xavez

[Eronai_Jantig]

First Abjurant Champion is from Complete Mage. Also a note on armor and such. I like wearing Full-Plate for reasons of awesome. It's kinda badass to be a caster wearing full plate with no issues. The way to do this in my outline is this. You get 10% reduced by being a Spellsword, then 10% from having it made from Mithril, then 10% from it being enchanted with Twilight (BoED, PH2, MIC), then enhance it with Thistledown Padding (5% reduction addition of Armor Check Penalty) which is from Races of the Wild if I remember correctly, it's also the easiest to get by your DM.

And yes, if the Book of Exalted Deeds is fully open, Greater Luminous Armor is the best thing for you, it's literally better than armor. However, you can use both for both awesomeness, and optimalness.

Fighter 1/Sorcerer 10/Abjurant Champion 5/SpellSword 1/Something that increases spell-casting and BaB all the way.

Reasoning behind this:
The AC boost and no losing caster levels you will see from Abjurant Champion is worth more than that of your limited per day move action to channel spell ability. You gain that ability back by utilizing a Quicken Spell + Smiting Spell metamagic'd spell along with Rapid Metamagic. Yeah your expending high level slots, but its worth it, because now you can as a swift action, cast say, Combust (Spell Compendium) and do at least 10d8 damage by time you can cast it.

Since you'll be using the Shield spell (Which is not only lasts longer and is faster to cast, but adds more to your AC because of your levels in Abjurant Champion.) it becomes pointless to have a shield, thus I suggest a Great Sword.

I also suggest getting to 9th level spells, find some way to boost your caster level to 22, become a solar, and profit. As thats what I'm doing on my gish.

Ways to do this?
Items:
Ring of Arcane Might: 20,000 (Magic Item Compendium), +1 To arcane caster level.
Orange Ioun Stone: 30,000, +1 To caster level.

Spells:
Spell Enhancer: Level 4, swift action, +2 Caster Level

Other thoughts:

Useful spells:
Dragonskin (Spell Compendium), +5 Nat AC by level 10, becomes redundant when you can become a solar, unless it stacks, I'm not sure if it does.

Orb of Force (Spell Compendium), bread and butter sorcerer spell, even if your not a blaster build. You can hit pretty much anything with 10d6 damage.

Dimension Door, hey, at later levels you can pop it as a swift at the end of your action if need be (At the end because after use, it will end your action, no Dim Door to flank full actions unfortunately.)

Combust (Spell Compendium) already mentioned it, its fire damage, level 2, and a good idea to arcane thesis(PH2 feat) to lower the spell level when metamagic.

I suggest getting items to enhance your ability scores going in this order: CHA, STR, DEX, CON

[Jarian]

Unlocking the latent powers of your heritage, etc, etc.

Changeling is, admittedly, easier to explain.

[AmberVael]

It's in Complete Mage. As such, it is copyrighted information. There is no authorized source that can be linked to.

Also, calm down.

[Mongoose87]

Screaming

I don't think it's available for free online, within the limits of the law.