Is this build even worth the time and loss of CL?

[Os1ris09]

I am playing the following character:

Illumian
Warlock 1/Cleric 4
sigils: One that add's +1 CL per sigil stone and the INT based one for checks
Feats:
Enhanced Sigil (for +3 CL)
Extend Spell (getting ready for Persist and DMM)

What I want to know is it worth taking the PrC Ordained Champion for this build to add some "front line firepower" to the character OR just stay with the Eldritch Disciple till around 8th lvl and bail out into regular cleric again?

[Renchard]

Are you glaivelocking with this build?

[Jair Barik]

If being a cleric who draws power through some sort of demonic force is your character concept then sure it would be worth making a cleric warlock.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Eldritch Disciple is the obvious choice here, and it looks particularly good if you're CG aligned. Get Corrupting Blast, Healing Blast, Protective Aura, and probably Wild Frenzy, and keep in mind that it's a swift action to activate those. After that maybe take Contemplative and/or Divine Oracle 4, and be sure to pick up Eldritch Glaive and Power Attack if you don't already have them.

[The Glyphstone]

If being a cleric who draws power through some sort of demonic Fey force is your character concept then sure it would be worth making a cleric warlock.

Fixed that for you.

Or, y'know, he could just have power from two places. His heritage/bloodline from which he inherits warlockness, and the god that he's sworn to.

[Os1ris09]

I don't know what the glaive lock thing is but in general to all the above yes. I like the character concept as far as roleplaying. I AM to go into Eldritch Disciple and stick around for maybe 8 lvls or so but I wanted to get some BAB and combat abilities into play before I get into the 16/17 lvl range.

[Il_Vec]

Did you check the Hellfire Warlock prestige class on Fiendish Codex 2?

Tip: There are easy and cheap ways to heal ability damage.

[nedz]

Glaivelock is a term to describe warlock melle builds based on the Eldritch Glaive Lest Invokation.
Eldritch Glaive creates a melle weapon with reach from your eldritch power. It makes touch attacks and you get iterative attacks.
Eldritch Glaive is from the Dragon book (whatever its called)

Edit:
Dragon Magic p82 and its always a full round action to use

[The Cat Goddess]

Don't forget that the Planning Domain gives you the Extend Spell Feat.

And the Spell Domain for "Anyspell" and "Greater Anyspell" spells.

[PId6]

I don't know what the glaive lock thing is but in general to all the above yes. I like the character concept as far as roleplaying. I AM to go into Eldritch Disciple and stick around for maybe 8 lvls or so but I wanted to get some BAB and combat abilities into play before I get into the 16/17 lvl range.

You don't need BAB when you've Divine Power and DMM: Persist. Eldritch Glaive gives you more than enough combat abilities, letting you make full touch attacks with reach and extra damage. I'd recommend going fully into Eldritch Disciple and finishing up in either Legacy Champion or cleric PrCs if you're lactose intolerant.

Oh, and Planning + Undeath is the standard DMM entry package (Extend Spell + Extra Turning).

[Os1ris09]

@ Nedz: Ok that is the glaive lock. I knew about that invocation but didn't know there was a lock tactic with it involved.

@ Il_Vec: I do not have the Fiendish Codex II so you might want to help me out here. Whats good about that PrC?

@ The Cat Goddess: I forgot about those Domains. What good Deity gives those Two domains as its choices? Right now I have the Travel and Luck Domain with the Luck Domain given up to spontaneously cast Restoration Spells.

@ PId6: Where is Legacy Champion? Also I don't know of a single Deity that gives those two Domains TOGETHER as there domain choices. OTHERWISE I would have gone with that choice regardless of Alignment.

[PId6]

@ Il_Vec: I do not have the Fiendish Codex II so you might want to help me out here. Whats good about that PrC?

It's a 3 level PrC that fully advances warlock invocations and EB. In addition, every level you gain 2d6 more damage for your EB (for a total of 6d6), but each time you use it, you deal yourself 1 Con damage. This can be mitigated either by either binding Naberius (ToM) to heal it away or by shaping Strongheart Vest (MoI) to give yourself effectively DR 1 for ability damage.

It's most awesome when used with Legacy Champion since then you get to gain more than 6d6 worth of damage by expanding Hellfire Warlock beyond 3 levels (how's at will 30d6 Eldritch Blast sound?).

@ PId6: Where is Legacy Champion?

Legacy Champion is in Weapons of Legacy. It advances the class features of any class, so you can use it to advance the progression of Eldritch Disciple beyond 10 levels.

Also I don't know of a single Deity that gives those two Domains TOGETHER as there domain choices. OTHERWISE I would have gone with that choice regardless of Alignment.

You can just worship a cause or ideal and pick whatever domains you choose. I think the ideal of "Lichdom" would be well suited to the two domains, for example.

[The Cat Goddess]

Domains available per Deity depend on your Setting.

If you become a "Cleric of an Ideal" rather than of a Deity, you can simply pick whatever Domains you want.

Legacy Champion is in the book "Weapons of Legacy".

Hellfire Warlock is a 3 level PrC that gives the option of adding 2d6 Hellfire damage per level (+6d6 at level 3) to your Eldritch Blast. Doing so causes you to take Con damage, however... I think only 1 point. It also allows you to infuse Wands & Staffs with extra power, but I don't recall the effect off the top of my head.

[Os1ris09]

Ok I will probably do the Hellfire Warlock IF AND ONLY IF you can heal the ability damage with lesser restoration.

Lesser Restoration per Players Handbook:

Lesser restoration dispels any magical effects
reducing one of the subject’s ability scores
(such as ray of enfeeblement) or cures 1d4
points of temporary ability damage to one
of the subject’s ability scores (such as from
a shadow’s touch or from poison). It also
eliminates any fatigue suffered by the
character, and improves an exhausted
condition to fatigued. It does not restore
permanent ability drain.

Also as a general tip of advice which classes class features would you improve? Would you do Eldritch Disciple OR Cleric?

[PId6]

Yes, you can heal the ability damage via Lesser Restoration. It's somewhat inefficient though, and eats your 2nd level spells very quickly. A wand of it is much better, but that's not cheap until higher levels.

If you're going to do Eldritch Disciple though, I'd recommend just skipping Hellfire Warlock. It's good, but it doesn't advance cleric casting, and cleric casting is better. Ultimately cleric > warlock and you'll want to max out cleric as much as you can while only dipping warlock goodies. I'd take Eldritch Disciple as far as you can, and Legacy Champion beyond that if possible, but if not, just take 10 levels of Eldritch Disciple and finish up with more cleric advancement.

[nedz]

@ Nedz: Ok that is the glaive lock. I knew about that invocation but didn't know there was a lock tactic with it involved.

Lock is short for Warlock
So a GlaiveLock is a Warlock based around Eldritch Glaive.

[Os1ris09]

Lock is short for Warlock
So a GlaiveLock is a Warlock based around Eldritch Glaive.

@ PId6: Well right now I have the Travel and Luck Domains with Luck's domain power given up for Spontaneously casting restoration spells. HOWEVER I may get rid of this quality to go with the UNDEATH and Planning Domains using the gish Idea of become a Lich.

@ nedz:OK LOL didn't catch that. I don't normally play warlocks just clerics or ranger's or fighter's.

So would this class progression be the best to go for assuming DM allows Legacy Champion?

Warlock 1/Cleric 4/ Eldritch Disciple 5/ Legacy Champion 10

OR If DM says Absolutly no then would this be better:

Warlock 1/Cleric 4/Eldritch Disciple 10/ Cleric 5

Also one question on spells. Does anybody know what a good combonation of spells are to make the opponent locked if they don't save. I know blasphemy is one of several good spells for this purpose.

[Optimystik]

There is another (better) option besides Legacy Champion - Mystic Theurge can advance both Warlock Invocations and Cleric Spells, and unlike LC will not lose caster levels.

The Divine Magician ACF (CM) gives your cleric arcane spells in place of a domain, allowing you to qualify without problems. From there, advance Warlock and Cleric.

It's also easier to get Complete Mage into most games than Weapons of Legacy.

[Os1ris09]

There is another (better) option besides Legacy Champion - Mystic Theurge can advance both Warlock Invocations and Cleric Spells, and unlike LC will not lose caster levels.

The Divine Magician ACF (CM) gives your cleric arcane spells in place of a domain, allowing you to qualify without problems. From there, advance Warlock and Cleric.

It's also easier to get Complete Mage into most games than Weapons of Legacy.

I read Divine Magician and honestly I don't like the idea of getting rid of a domain completely IF I can get the undeath and planning domain idea ok'ed by my DM. However if that doesn't work then which domain would you take out of the two? Because I can easily pick up a Domain with a crappy power and trade out its ability with Spontaneous Restoration AND keep its spell selection. UNLESS you think there is a better alternative in the Arcane Spell list. If so plz list what spells you would choose for this particular build.

Warlock 1/Cleric 4/Eldritch Disciple 10/ Cleric 5

[The Cat Goddess]

Actually, due to the ruling in Complete Arcane which allows Warlocks to qualify for PrCs that have spellcasting requirements, you can go into Mystic Theurge right after Eldritch Disciple with no cheese required.

At least one of your Invocations will count as "casting 2nd level Arcane Spells".

[DragoonWraith]

I suggest you reread Complete Arcane - it specifically says you cannot do that. You can't qualify for anything that requires "X level spells". "Caster Level X" you can do, and you can also do "able to cast X spell" if there's an Invocation that mimics it, but you can't actually cast spells.

It's a really dumb ruling, IMO.

[Optimystik]

Actually, due to the ruling in Complete Arcane which allows Warlocks to qualify for PrCs that have spellcasting requirements, you can go into Mystic Theurge right after Eldritch Disciple with no cheese required.

At least one of your Invocations will count as "casting 2nd level Arcane Spells".

No, Warlocks can't get into MT on their own (see DragoonWraith's post.) MT will advance Warlock, but you need another way to actually get in.

Warlocks can only qualify for PrCs that say "Caster Level X" like Blood Magus, and "Able to cast X" like Mindbender/Swanmay.

I read Divine Magician and honestly I don't like the idea of getting rid of a domain completely IF I can get the undeath and planning domain idea ok'ed by my DM. However if that doesn't work then which domain would you take out of the two? Because I can easily pick up a Domain with a crappy power and trade out its ability with Spontaneous Restoration AND keep its spell selection. UNLESS you think there is a better alternative in the Arcane Spell list. If so plz list what spells you would choose for this particular build.

Warlock 1/Cleric 4/Eldritch Disciple 10/ Cleric 5

You don't have to drop either of them. Be a Cloistered Cleric and trade your free Knowledge Domain in for Divine Magician. The flavor even fits - you cloistered away and learned some arcane magic. Done.

(Because you are using Divine Power to boost your BAB anyway, CC's poor BAB is irrelevant.)

[Os1ris09]

Ok so Mystic Theurge is out. I don't like the HD and I want a little more for my expenditure. I mean I am already losing some stuff as far as levels but I am not the primary Arcane guy. I just thought it would be cool to combine the two classes since no one has ever done that within my party. any feat suggestions for the build.

Right now i have the following which may change due to domains changing:
1 Enhanced Power Sigil
3 Extend Spell
6 Persist Spell
9 DMM Persist
12 Power Attack
15 I dont know
18 I dont know

If I choose the Planning and Undeath domains choice will change as follows:
Domain: Extra Turning
Domain: Extend Spell
1 Enhanced Power Sigil
3 Persist Spell
6 DMM Persist
9 Extra Turning (again)
12 Power Attack
15 I dont know
18 I dont know

[Optimystik]

Ok so Mystic Theurge is out. I don't like the HD and I want a little more for my expenditure.

I don't understand. Are you going with Legacy Champion then? that's the only other way to get both 9th-level spells and Dark Invocations with Cleric/Warlock.

[Os1ris09]

I don't understand. Are you going with Legacy Champion then? that's the only other way to get both 9th-level spells and Dark Invocations with Cleric/Warlock.

Ok, I was just about to edit my above post till I saw ur post.

I may do that because we don't really have an arcane spellcaster type person. I see the cloistered cleric and I can do some really good fluff with it. I think I will change the build to the following:

Illumian with the extra CL sigil and + INT sigil
Warlock 1/ Cloistered Cleric of Lichdom 4/ Eldritch Disciple 10/Mystic Theurge 5

Domains: Knowledge (traded out for Divine Magician), Planning, Undeath

Feats:
Domain: Extra Turning
Domain: Extend Spell
1 Persist Spell
3 DMM persist
6 Extra Turning
9 Knowledge Devotion
12 Power Attack
15 IDK
18 I dont know

The only problem I can see with it is that I need to know if I need to absolutely have access to the knowledge domain for the feat OR if I can get away with Knowledge devotion even though i "sacrificed it" for divine magician

[PId6]

The only problem I can see with it is that I need to know if I need to absolutely have access to the knowledge domain for the feat OR if I can get away with Knowledge devotion even though i "sacrificed it" for divine magician

There's nothing preventing you from actually taking Knowledge Devotion even if you trade Knowledge Domain away. However, know that you do lose several Knowledge skills from cloistered cleric since you don't have the domain, leaving only Arcana, Religion, and Planes (which is still pretty good, and you can use Knowledge Devotion to nab Nature to get all four good ones).

If you have extra feats, you can't go wrong with just taking Extra Turning.

[Optimystik]

The only problem I can see with it is that I need to know if I need to absolutely have access to the knowledge domain for the feat OR if I can get away with Knowledge devotion even though i "sacrificed it" for divine magician

You can just take Knowledge Devotion normally as one of your feats.

If you have extra feats, you can't go wrong with just taking Extra Turning.

This - your turning is being stretched very thin between DMM and your ED powers, so you will need as many attempts as you can get.

[Os1ris09]

So basically replace unknown feats with extra turning. Ok I can do that.

What spells would you recommend for Divine Magician. I think haste at lvl 3 is very helpful.

[Optimystik]

Haste is out - you can only pick Abjuration, Divination and Necromancy spells, but Haste is Transmutation.

Shivering Touch is great against dragons. In fact, there are lots of nice necro spells like rays a cleric wouldn't normally get. Since rays are kind of your thing anyway you can go that route.

[Os1ris09]

DANG IT . I wanted haste.......

any suggestions?