Battlefield Control vs Blasting

[Wonton]

I'm in a dilemma here - I'm going to be playing a Conjurer 5/Mage of the Arcane Order 2 (similar to Treatmonk's "God" build), and I really wanted to be a Battlefield Controller. Thing is, my party's going to be me, a Bard, a Psion, a Cleric, maybe a Ninja, and an unknown (we don't know what he's playing, or if he is at all).

So it seems like I don't really have anyone to control the battlefield FOR - no Fighter, no Rogue. Is direct damage a better route in this case?

[Hida Reju]

Well you can always pull out a few Summon Spells and make your own mooks for battlefield work. If the Psion is halfway smart they will have Astral Construct too.

I love my minions the make the universe simple.

[imperialspectre]

The good news is that you don't have to change your basic build at all. Get Unicorn Arrow (PHB2) in your spellbook, and you get blasting + BC with one spell.

The better news is that if your teammates are competent, damage should be largely covered. Clerics are better beatsticks than Fighters are, and Psions are highly effective blasters (especially with the XPH version of Energy Stun, among other great scaling blast powers). So using your save-or-suck control spells, like Glitterdust and Stinking Cloud, will be a really good option for keeping enemies off of your squishy friends while they beat the hell out of whatever enemies are left.

[lsfreak]

Battlefield control is good no matter what your group is made of, because it takes your enemies and halves their numbers. Taking half the attacks per round is great.

I'd instead focus on mixed-threat spells, though. Spells like enervation, boiling blood, and acid fog mix a bit of 'blast' with debuffing or BC. Dimension shuffle gets your melee in range for full attacks and enemies close enough that they're all hit by the psions blasty spells. That kind of thing.

[Chrono22]

Some well placed acid/sonic effects can also fill in as crowd control, depending on the environment and how much damage they are dealing.

[Hendel]

There is nothing wrong with controlling the battlefield. We ran through the Red Hand of Doom adventure and there was a part where the armies were coming towards us. We used several types of walls and clouds to funnel the bad guys, block their line of sight, and otherwise enable all the good folk to get away. We could not have done that with just "boom-boom" magic.

They both have their uses and sometimes the flashy stuff gets more attention, but it is a smart caster who knows how to control things to his party's benefit.

[Pluto]

So it seems like I don't really have anyone to control the battlefield FOR - no Fighter, no Rogue. Is direct damage a better route in this case?

???
You have a Cleric and a Ninja. Clerics are good at smashing things and the Ninja is probably going to need you to do BC, in order to generate Sudden Strikes. I have no idea what the Bard and Psion are going to be doing, but Psions generally have a wide array of offensive options (though they lack the BC skills of the Wizard) and Bards can be offensive powerhouses (but they vary wildly by player skill).

[Amphetryon]

I'm in a dilemma here - I'm going to be playing a Conjurer 5/Mage of the Arcane Order 2 (similar to Treatmonk's "God" build), and I really wanted to be a Battlefield Controller. Thing is, my party's going to be me, a Bard, a Psion, a Cleric, maybe a Ninja, and an unknown (we don't know what he's playing, or if he is at all).

So it seems like I don't really have anyone to control the battlefield FOR - no Fighter, no Rogue. Is direct damage a better route in this case?

My 2cp: Play your character as you envision him/her. I've yet to see a party that couldn't use Battlefield Control.

Given this party, the Cleric is likely to step up to do at least some of the wading into combat via Divine Power et al.

The Ninja needs - as Pluto said - someone to aid Battlefield Control.

The Psion's Discipline is either unknown or not disclosed; an Egoist is a better beatstick than a Monk (not saying much, I know) any day of the week, and is a fun variant on how to play an Arcanist 'type.'

A Bard built toward a Skaald archetype, either with Warrior Skaald from Faerun or via Snowflake Wardance and such, works just fine as a front-liner and needs Battlefield Control.

Pick up Grease and a Lesser Orb at 1st level and you've got the option to do either, based on the specific situation, anyway. That's one reason Conjuration is such a strong school.

[Togo]

You're a wizard, Do both. Concentrate on the one you like and enjoy and make sure you can do a bit of the other in case the party needs it.

Generally speaking, more characters stop being played through lack of interest than through character death. It is more optimal to ignore character optimisation in favour of what you want to play.

[Godskook]

Dual Threat

Orb of Fire is a great "take a ton of damage, now roll for daze" spell.

Not a great spell to fill your highest slots with, but in your second highest(so, when you hit L9), its a great idea.

Also, some optimization advice:

Take master specialist 2 as part of the build. Wiz 3/MS 2 is, in every way, better than Wiz 5, if you don't absolutely need the feat. If you need skill focus or greater spell focus, its categorically better. And since you're thinking damage spells, dipping Archmage(skill focus is a prereq) for mastery of elements is a great idea later on.

You're snagging focused specialist, right? Cause having an extra spell per level around is handy, especially as a MotAO, who can fill school slots with the pool-spells.

[Gnaeus]

In THAT party, I would look at Save-Or Suck/Dies (or better, no save, just suck/dies). Normally, Battlefield Control is way superior, because Save-Or-Dies steal a lot of thunder from melee. But in a group with Psion, Cleric and Bard, you aren't hurting the party members by making one shot kills. Look at stuff like Cloudkill, which combines battlefield control with debuffs that make the next save or die hit, or debuffs like enervation or ray of exhaustion which weaken the enemies ability to hurt you, damage its saves AND stack with similar effects from other casters.

[Runestar]

I too agree that it would not hurt to squeeze some damage inside. Without a fighter to serve as your infinite source of damage, your wizard will have to step up and deal his fair share of damage as well.

[Mongoose87]

How good is the Op-Fu of your party-mates? I've found, in the past, trying for BC when your party members aren't particularly effective can be pretty frustrating.

[Another_Poet]

I'd go full BC as you wanted, and invest in a wand of fireball for those "special" times when the team just needs a cannon.

But as others have said, the ninja will thank you for providing Sudden Strike. The cleric will thank you for allowing him to do something else than heal people. The bard... is a bard. Enjoy your conjurationizing.

[Wonton]

Thanks for all the help, everyone!

If the Psion is halfway smart they will have Astral Construct too.

Honestly, it's this guy's second or third time playing D&D, so I wouldn't expect much optimization from him... he usually goes for the cool character concept first.

The good news is that you don't have to change your basic build at all. Get Unicorn Arrow (PHB2) in your spellbook, and you get blasting + BC with one spell.

Hahaha, yes, I love that spell too.

???
You have a Cleric and a Ninja. Clerics are good at smashing things and the Ninja is probably going to need you to do BC, in order to generate Sudden Strikes. I have no idea what the Bard and Psion are going to be doing, but Psions generally have a wide array of offensive options (though they lack the BC skills of the Wizard) and Bards can be offensive powerhouses (but they vary wildly by player skill).

Yeah, the Ninja will love me for the BC, of course, but I left her out cause we don't know for sure if that's going to be her character or not.

My 2cp: Play your character as you envision him/her. I've yet to see a party that couldn't use Battlefield Control.

That's the message I seem to be getting. Thanks for the reassurance.

A Bard built toward a Skaald archetype, either with Warrior Skaald from Faerun or via Snowflake Wardance and such, works just fine as a front-liner and needs Battlefield Control.

Actually, to the above comments, the Bard is the heaviest optimizer of us all, he's definitely made a character to be rivaled with... his Inspire Courage gives +4, Bardic Knack means he's got about +7 in most skills, he's taking Snowflake Wardance, which, combined with Whirling Blade, Power Attack, and Sculpt Spell can stack for crazy damage (for a bard ).

Take master specialist 2 as part of the build. Wiz 3/MS 2 is, in every way, better than Wiz 5, if you don't absolutely need the feat. If you need skill focus or greater spell focus, its categorically better. And since you're thinking damage spells, dipping Archmage(skill focus is a prereq) for mastery of elements is a great idea later on.

You're snagging focused specialist, right? Cause having an extra spell per level around is handy, especially as a MotAO, who can fill school slots with the pool-spells.

Well, due to me taking a couple of interesting (read: Less than optimal) feats, I need every feat I can get. As to Focused Specialist, I've already lost Enchantment and Evocation, so losing a third school would probably mean Illusion... which is somewhat painful to give up. Also, the Spellpool only allows me to call 3 spell-levels per day, which really isn't that impressive (I'm keeping a 1st and 2nd level slot open, mainly for utility spells). At the moment, I also want to take Paragnostic Apostle, which is FOUR PrCs I'm considering now...

Originally, I was going to go Wiz 5/MotAO 4/Paragnostic Apostle 1/MotAO 3/Master Specialist 3/Archmage 4. I might want to revise this, though... Maybe I shouldn't bother getting to Spellpool III... something like Wiz 3/MS 2/MotAO 2/MS 1/MotAO 2/PA 1/MS 4/Archmage 5

Wow, that's a lot of slashes

[Eldariel]

You can just use Lesser Planar Binding if you feel the need for an extra meatshield or two. Most of the Demons you can bind are fairly competent and as a level 5 Conjuration, it's available in the near future. Overall, if it seems like the party needs more brawn, whip out some of the "quite a bit too strong and makes Fighters cry"-spells like Polymorph, as you have no Fighters crying in the party. But I don't foresee it being an issue. Wild Cohort presents another easily available meatshield.

[Hida Reju]

You can just use Lesser Planar Binding if you feel the need for an extra meatshield or two. Most of the Demons you can bind are fairly competent and as a level 5 Conjuration, it's available in the near future. Overall, if it seems like the party needs more brawn, whip out some of the "quite a bit too strong and makes Fighters cry"-spells like Polymorph, as you have no Fighters crying in the party. But I don't foresee it being an issue. Wild Cohort presents another easily available meatshield.

Both awesome choices but I still like being able to drop a Summon Monster X line of spell if I need one since it is the swiss army knife of beatstick. Decent choices if a little underpowered but will act as a decent meatshield.

But there is more than enough spells for battlefield control to pick any style of game you want to play. Hell Illusions are awesome at mid lvl prior to mind blank and can make it look like you have as many beatsticks as you want.