can mystra keep a magic item from functioning?

[jenthedestroyer]

i play with the forgotten realms campaign setting using v3/3.5. mjames and i had quite the discussion tonight about mystra and the weave, and would like your input.

as stated in the forgotten realms campaign setting, "all spells, magic items, spell-like abilities, and even supernatural abilities such as a ghost's ability to walk through walls, depend on the weave and call upon it in different ways."
also stated in the same book, "the weave is the body of mystra, the goddess of magic."
from faiths and pantheons: "Mystra has the power to deny any creature, mortal or divine, the ability the access the weave."

so, if mystra decides to deny a party access to the weave, can they still use magic items? the specific item in question is a rod of security.

since the item in question will be accessing the weave to create the magical effect, would the character (by activating the item) be accessing the weave? if so, since mystra is denying the party access, wouldn't the item not function?

[Morty]

I think the answer is "yes". Mystra controls the Weave, so she can stop every part of it from functioning, including magic items.

[Greenish]

She's a greater god, so I should think she can do pretty much what she wants (unless someone is cheating her).

[AstralFire]

However, because of Aoshenanigans, the god of magic gets frowned on for actually using magic denial as a tool, overmuch.

[Kish]

If she doesn't have a good (that is, Lawful Neutral and related to the portfolio of magic) reason for doing so, Ao is liable to frown at her, however.

(In one of the novels, he told her she had to stop arbitrarily denying Cyric magic, because no part of her portfolio involves opposing Cyric.)

[AstralFire]

Ah, Ao. I hate you almost as much as I hate the Lady of Pain.

[The Rose Dragon]

Ah, Ao. I hate you almost as much as I hate the Lady of Pain.

So, not at all?

[AstralFire]

So, not at all?

Why, yes. I want to hug them with love. Hug them so tight they explode. Permanently. No save.

[mjames]

From a RAW standpoint, Mystra only has power over the creatures access to the weave. I agree from metagame standpoint that she controls the weave, but spells are put into objects when they are made, not everytime they are used

[The Rose Dragon]

Why, yes. I want to hug them with love. Hug them so tight they explode. Permanently. No save.

Well, you can't really hug the Lady of Pain without her shadow falling upon you. So good luck with doing that.

[Morty]

From a RAW standpoint, Mystra only has power over the creatures access to the weave. I agree from metagame standpoint that she controls the weave, but spells are put into objects when they are made, not everytime they are used

Magic items are quite explicitly stated to be a part of the Weave in the FR rulebooks.

[The Rose Dragon]

Magic items are quite explicitly stated to be a part of the Weave in the FR rulebooks.

Not all magic items, though. Those built by Shadow Weave magicians function even in dead magic areas, which Shadow Weave lacks. However, Shar has no qualms about barring someone access to Shadow Weave, unlike Mystra, who has to consider the balance of magic as a whole.

[Morty]

Not all magic items, though. Those built by Shadow Weave magicians function even in dead magic areas, which Shadow Weave lacks. However, Shar has no qualms about barring someone access to Shadow Weave, unlike Mystra, who has to consider the balance of magic as a whole.

Yeah, but I thought that "unless they're made using the Shadow Weave" went without saying. They're a part of a Weave regardless.

[mjames]

I agree, but the Weave and Mistra are still separate entities, based on the fact that the first Mistra died without the weave. The current mistra in her description states that she can control a beings access to the weave. Not an items,without using an antimagic field,which would negate itself is she disallowed all magics, therefore allowing a rod or magic item to work.

[AstralFire]

An anti-magic field is a magical manifestation of a natural phenomenon that occurs when something has no access to the weave, IIRC.

[Coidzor]

Y'know, it's times like these I wonder if Ao would be more angry at the person who built and tried to fire off a universe-destroying device or Mystra if she kept it from working...

[AstralFire]

Y'know, it's times like these I wonder if Ao would be more angry at the person who built and tried to fire off a universe-destroying device or Mystra if she kept it from working...

Ao would be angrier at whoever the person in charge of the FR franchise at the time decides he should be. There's not really a lot of ... independent personality for Ao. He's just kind of 'hurr hurr balance' and 'worship me I shall smite you'.

[Morty]

Y'know, it's times like these I wonder if Ao would be more angry at the person who built and tried to fire off a universe-destroying device or Mystra if she kept it from working...

Universe-destroying devices is what Mystra is supposed to prevent. Things smaller than that count as needless meddling. I think Ao would prefer to leave it to mortal heroes to deal with this kind of thing, though.
As for magic items and the Weave: I'm not sure I understand your point. Whether or not Mystra and Weaver are separate or not isn't an issue; she controls the Weave and magic items use it. So she can prevent them from working.

[Optimystik]

Ao would be angrier at whoever the person in charge of the FR franchise at the time decides he should be. There's not really a lot of ... independent personality for Ao. He's just kind of 'hurr hurr balance' and 'worship me I shall smite you'.

If you think "hurr hurr balance" is bad in FR, give Dragonlance a try.

[herrhauptmann]

If you think "hurr hurr balance" is bad in FR, give Dragonlance a try.

I read a few of the books, I'll pass thanks.
My 2 cents:
Mystra can deny a person access to the weave itself with no difficulty. That person can technically still use magic items (at least according to the novels). To prevent that person from using the items as well, mystra would have to be watching every second to deny magic to each individual item as soon as it's grabbed. And given that she's a greater goddess, with a DR of 16+, she could easily do so.

Mystra's Ban, something created soon after the creation of the first Mystra (right after the death of Mystryl), prevents certain huge spells from being castable in the first place. Like the one where Karsus attempted to become a god, or the one which allowed the creation of the floating Netherese cities.

[arguskos]

Mystra's Ban, something created soon after the creation of the first Mystra (right after the death of Mystryl), prevents certain huge spells from being castable in the first place. Like the one where Karsus attempted to become a god, or the one which allowed the creation of the floating Netherese cities.

Technically, Proctal's Move Mountain (the spell that slices off a mountain top and inverts it floating in midair) still exists as an Epic spell. But yes, the 10th or 11th level version no longer exists.

Note that the spell Karsus attempted, Karsus' Avatar, was level 12 at the time. It also succeeded with no issues. The problem was that he didn't account for the overflow of power and the discipline required to keep the Weave functioning. What happened was that he didn't so much destroy magic as neglect it for a few moments, which was enough to destroy Mystryl and kill himself as well. /nitpick

[Kyeudo]

Mystra is one of the Forgotten Realms' Uber-Deus Ex Machina that are floating around. She can do anything the plot calls for her to do, because her portfolio (magic) is broad enough to do anything. Ao is the opposed Uber-Deus Ex Machina used to explain why she didn't do whatever would have made the plot overly simple.

[mjames]

Thanks all. So my character running around taking over shadowdale and uniting the Dales is under her radar.

[arguskos]

Thanks all. So my character running around taking over shadowdale and uniting the Dales is under her radar.

Really depends on how you're doing it. If you're coming into direct conflict with Silverhand or the Old Sage, no, you're not under her radar (so to say). Juuuuuust saying.

[Killer Angel]

Mystra is a greater goddess, so she can do whatever pleases her. And messing with magic items is especially easy and appropriate for her.
But she should have a good reason... usually, the gods are not directly interested by non-epic mortals' actions.