[3.5] Spell Question: Novaing on the Light of X Spells

[balistafreak]

From the Spell Compendium, there are three spells: Light of Lunia, Mercuria, and Venya, at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level, respectively. When cast, they provide a long-term source of light. Curiously, at least one round after casting (not on the same turn), they can "as a ranged touch attack" fire said source of light as a ray dealing light damage (as in light type, not "little" damage). You

Now here's where I get confused: it goes on to state that "you can choose to fire one additional ray with the same characteristics either on the same round or on a subsequent round. Firing the second ray quenches your radiance and ends the spell."

At first I thought that it was a standard action on your next turn to shoot the ray. Then I thought that it was a standard action on your next turn to shoot one ray or both, and you'd have to spend another standard action to shoot the second on a later turn.

Then I read it closely and realized it never dictated an action type to fire these rays.

Do ranged touch attacks always take up standard actions unless dictated (as in here, where I can apparently shoot both in one standard action, or other multi-ray spells) or can it be assumed that shooting these rays is a free action? Meaning that I can attempt to create a nova by discharging these rays and casting another attack spell (albeit a low-level nova)?

[dextercorvia]

Huh. I read someone claim that they were free actions to fire somewhere before I looked up the spells, so that is what I always assumed. I do know that they are personal spells, so you can share them with your familiar/animal companion. Bonus points if you have both. Even if it is a standard action, 4 (or 6 if you can pull it off) rays (IIRC the 1st level one deals 1d6/ray) is a mini nova at 1st.

[Cog]

I see no reason to believe they aren't normal attack actions - so, however many you're granted per turn based on your BAB.

[Wonton]

Seeing as the spell allows you to fire a ray of light and then "fire one additional ray... on the same round", we're left to infer that this is an action that can be take twice in a single round, which must be either Move or Free. This is where we're left to assume, but seeing as nothing else in the game lets you attack as a Move action, assuming that it's Free is quite reasonable.

(Everything above is acting on the assumption that firing two rays takes more actions than firing one ray. If one OR two rays can be fired as a standard action, the argument is invalid. However, once again, in very few places in D&D can doing something once or twice take the same action )

[nedz]

This sounds a bit like Scorching Ray.
(There's nothing in the Errata or FAQ.)
I would read them as attacks.

[balistafreak]

So, if I can shoot them as free actions, I can do this:

Round 1: Light of Vecna.
Round 2: Shoot off two rays as free actions. Light of Vecna. This works because you're not shooting the rays given you this turn (which is explicitly called out as impossible, as you must shoot the rays at least a round later).
Round 3: Repeat Round 2.

Combine with a Familiar to get 4 rays. That's a neat trick at a specific level.

[Wonton]

So, if I can shoot them as free actions, I can do this:

Round 1: Light of Vecna.
Round 2: Shoot off two rays as free actions. Light of Vecna. This works because you're not shooting the rays given you this turn (which is explicitly called out as impossible, as you must shoot the rays at least a round later).
Round 3: Repeat Round 2.

Combine with a Familiar to get 4 rays. That's a neat trick at a specific level.

Yes, although Light of Vecna might be a different spell than Light of Venya. Probably one lacking the [Good] descriptor.

You could even have Light of Lunia, Mercuria, and Venya all up beforehand (they're 10 min/level durations), on yourself and your familiar, and then discharge everything in one turn. 24d6 damage in 12 rays.

[balistafreak]

Hmmm. That's a hilarious idea for a classic Macross Missile Massacre there.

There's a rule saying that repeated castings of the same spell replace each other, right? So no Light of Venya (Light of Vecna? ) x >9000 then novaing.

Thoughts: throw as much metamagic on all three Light of X spells. It's too much to ask to get Arcane Thesis on all of them, though.

Split Ray, Empower, Maximize, etc. Maybe not Split Ray - it does the same effective extra damage as Empower but you need extra attack rolls and ergo extra chances to mist.

Oh, and cast another Ray spell as you unleash the power as a free action.

That being said, at some point in time hitting with these rays is an actual problem. How can we augment the attack roll? I already know of Seeking Ray which delivers an astounding +4 to hit with ray spells for some time after scoring a hit with it... but feats? Weapon Focus: Ray is a terrible waste. Arcane Rehearsal doesn't work for our intent as worded.

It's not efficient (Arcane Thesis'd Wings of Flurry > this), but it's awesome and that's all that matters. Also, DM facepalm when you roll some 12+ dice in one attack.

[Fizban]

Not quite, multiple copies of the same spell don't stack. That doesn't mean you can't have multiple copies going at once (I saw a nice example in the Test of Spite where a Succubus put 100 copies of Charm Monster on the PC so it'd be harder to dispel). The only limitation is what action it takes to fire the rays. I'd assumed it took a standard action but you're right, it doesn't look like it's listed. As much as I'd like it to be a free action for missle massacre madness, I'd probably rule that it takes a standard action for concentrating on the spell. Hopefully a better rules-lawyer can refute this.

[Aharon]

They overlap, you can indeed load up on them. I saw that, too. Thought about making a build for ToS with that, but there, it isn't as effective as in the normal environment, because you're limited to 30 free actions per round.

There are ways around the 10 minutes/level duration...
If you're interested in making such a build for ToS, I can tell you about my idea, I probably won't have the time to do all the specifics, anyway - and right now, it's just a chassis.

[QuantumSteve]

Given the lack of a definitive ruling, it would be up to you (the DM) to interpret the spell.

Also, where is the 30 free action limit? Is it in the Rules Compendium?

[Aharon]

Nah, it's a Test of Spite rule - probably to limit exactly that kind of thing.

[dobu]

did I hear attack rolls? add some hunter's eye goodness (with cloud of knives for good measure) for damage :-)

[Aharon]

Gah. I should get a custom avatar. This is confusing

[dobu]

better now? :)