[4e] Chaos sorc tuning

[RagnaroksChosen]

Hello all,

I wanted to know if this build was up to standard as far as damage goes. and any help would be great.
I have a feeling my to hit and dmg are a bit on the low side. My to hit with chaos bolt is 14 for every
thing else its 13 and im doing damage dice +17 dmg.

campain information: no dragon/dungion stuff, standard array, items i get are 14,13,12, and 30 gp.



====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Vetis_sorcerer, level 13
Human, Sorcerer
Spell Source: Wild Magic

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 13, Dex 19, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 19.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 14.


AC: 21 Fort: 18 Reflex: 21 Will: 23
HP: 85 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 21

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +13, History +13, Athletics +11, Diplomacy +15, Insight +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Bluff +10, Dungeoneering +7, Endurance +7, Heal +7, Intimidate +10, Nature +7, Perception +7, Religion +8, Stealth +10, Streetwise +10, Thievery +10

FEATS
Human: Arcane Initiate
Level 1: Destructive Wizardry
Level 2: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 4: Implement Expertise (Light Blade)
Level 6: Action Surge
Level 8: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 10: Adept Power
Level 11: Focusing Spellfury
Level 12: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)

POWERS
Arcane Initiate: Illusory Ambush
Bonus At-Will Power: Dragonfrost
Sorcerer at-will 1: Blazing Starfall
Sorcerer at-will 1: Chaos Bolt
Sorcerer encounter 1: Pinning Bolt
Sorcerer daily 1: Dazzling Ray
Sorcerer utility 2: Focused Chaos
Sorcerer encounter 3: Spectral Claw
Sorcerer daily 5: Slaad's Gambit
Sorcerer utility 6: Swift Escape
Sorcerer encounter 7: Chaos Storm
Sorcerer daily 9: Winds of Change (retrained to Summon Abyssal Maw at Adept Power)
Sorcerer utility 10: Narrow Escape
Sorcerer encounter 13: Primordial Storm (replaces Spectral Claw)

ITEMS
Tooth of Chaos Dagger +2, Shimmering Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +1, Headband of Intellect (heroic tier), Luckblade Dagger +2
====== ======

[Kurald Galain]

I have a feeling my to hit and dmg are a bit on the low side.

Str 11, Con 13, Dex 19, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 19.

Well, there's your problem, then. You don't need str, or int, or wis. Put more points in Cha and you're golden.

For damage boosts, you can do better than MC'ing to wizard and doing destructive wizardry. Furthermore, TWF is not something you'll need, your adept power (and illusory ambush, too) is likely to miss since it keys off the wrong ability score, and action surge is rather overrated too.

To boost damage, also focus on multi-attacks, and take damaging utilities like dragonflame mantle. Finally, you can equip damage-boosting items like dragonshards, staff of ruin, or subtle dagger (or, for that matter, all of the above).

[RagnaroksChosen]

Well, there's your problem, then. You don't need str, or int, or wis. Put more points in Cha and you're golden.

For damage boosts, you can do better than MC'ing to wizard and doing destructive wizardry. Furthermore, TWF is not something you'll need, your adept power (and illusory ambush, too) is likely to miss since it keys off the wrong ability score, and action surge is rather overrated too.

To boost damage, also focus on multi-attacks, and take damaging utilities like dragonflame mantle. Finally, you can equip damage-boosting items like dragonshards, staff of ruin, or subtle dagger (or, for that matter, all of the above).

we have to use standard array no point buy.. so array the abilities are that way cuz of the array.

hmm ill have to look at a staff of ruin/ subtle dagger.


edit: also if i picked up a subtle dagger i would need to pick up the ranged combat advantage feat.

[Kurald Galain]

we have to use standard array no point buy.. so array the abilities are that way cuz of the array.

Even so, considering all your attacks key off cha, why isn't your highest score in cha?

[RagnaroksChosen]

Even so, considering all your attacks key off cha, why isn't your highest score in cha?

well I actualy was playing with the numbers. if put the 16 in cha my to hit goes up 1 but my damage on my other attacks for chaos bolt go down.

[Kurald Galain]

well I actualy was playing with the numbers. if put the 16 in cha my to hit goes up 1 but my damage on my other attacks for chaos bolt go down.

I'd suggest playing with the numbers again. Damage per round is increased significantly more by a +1 to hit, than by a +1 to secondary damage. You need to hit twice AND roll even on the first before the latter even comes into play.

[RagnaroksChosen]

I'd suggest playing with the numbers again. Damage per round is increased significantly more by a +1 to hit, than by a +1 to secondary damage. You need to hit twice AND roll even on the first before the latter even comes into play.

you bring up a very good point there. hmm ill have to tweek it a bit more.


granted I'm still debating on paragon paths.

I think its down to wild sorc, or spellstorm mage..

Twf -> arcane spell fury +1 to hit with atwills?

[Master_Rahl22]

A good way to boost damage with any Arcane caster is Dual Implement Spellcaster from Arcane Power. It lets you add the enhancement bonus of a second implement to your damage, so you could grab some other +2 implement and get 2 extra damage on all your powers. It really shines once bonuses get higher though, of course.

Another good thing to keep in mind is that even if your total bonuses to damage aren't all that high, Sorcerers have a ton of Blast and Burst powers, and their damage bonus gets added against every target they hit. If you deal 20 damage with a Burst power to 3 enemies, you really just did 60 damage.

[RagnaroksChosen]

A good way to boost damage with any Arcane caster is Dual Implement Spellcaster from Arcane Power. It lets you add the enhancement bonus of a second implement to your damage, so you could grab some other +2 implement and get 2 extra damage on all your powers. It really shines once bonuses get higher though, of course.

Another good thing to keep in mind is that even if your total bonuses to damage aren't all that high, Sorcerers have a ton of Blast and Burst powers, and their damage bonus gets added against every target they hit. If you deal 20 damage with a Burst power to 3 enemies, you really just did 60 damage.

agreed about the dual implement spell caster its in my build on the original post.

and ya i'm primarily going to be using chaos bolt.

[randomhero00]

Finally, you can equip damage-boosting items like dragonshards, staff of ruin, or subtle dagger (or, for that matter, all of the above).

I don't understand shards or how to equip them. When I buy them on the char builder there is no slot that lets me equip it. And if I do the dual implement thing, only one source (my staff of ruin) adds to damage.

[Kurald Galain]

I don't understand shards or how to equip them. When I buy them on the char builder there is no slot that lets me equip it. And if I do the dual implement thing, only one source (my staff of ruin) adds to damage.

The builder is known to be buggy at times.

You attach a shard to a weapon, like a dagger or staff, and it boosts attacks made through that weapon (even implement attacks).

The dual implement thing? Wielding a Staff of Ruin in your main hand and a Subtle Dagger in your off-hand should give you quadruple the damage bonus (1. for the staff, 2. for it being a staff of ruin, 3. for the dagger and dual implement spellcaster, and 4. for it being a subtle dagger as long as you have CA).

[randomhero00]

The builder is known to be buggy at times.

You attach a shard to a weapon, like a dagger or staff, and it boosts attacks made through that weapon (even implement attacks).

The dual implement thing? Wielding a Staff of Ruin in your main hand and a Subtle Dagger in your off-hand should give you quadruple the damage bonus (1. for the staff, 2. for it being a staff of ruin, 3. for the dagger and dual implement spellcaster, and 4. for it being a subtle dagger as long as you have CA).

Huh, must just be buggy then. Thanks for clearing it up.

[Excession]

Have you considered Halfling or Drow for your race? The extra stat boost helps fix the damage done by using the standard array, and in both cases you get a decent class feature (especially Drow's Cloud of Darkness) that may beat out the extra at-will all on it's own.

Distant Advantage is a good feat that you should probably have. If you're short on melee in your party, maybe pick up Sorcerous Blade Channeling so you can still cast when engaged in melee, and you can do your own flanking. Not compatible with the Staff of Ruin, but you could use your offhand dagger for those attacks.

The Subtle enchantment can be interpreted as requiring you to be attacking with that weapon to gain its benefit. Check with your DM as they might feel that the full combo is overpowered. If you have level 14, 13, and 12 items, your weapons should be +3, not +2. Both the subtle dagger and the staff of ruin are +3 at level 13.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

You need more Charisma, take points out of Intelligence.

[RagnaroksChosen]

You need more Charisma, take points out of Intelligence.

can't do that

[NeoVid]

granted I'm still debating on paragon paths.

There are almost no good choices for sorcerer PPs. Luckbender is probably the best by a big margin these days, with Demonskin Adept also being good, but it's the only PP in the game that has major drawbacks.

Also, this will help you a ton.

[RagnaroksChosen]

There are almost no good choices for sorcerer PPs. Luckbender is probably the best by a big margin these days, with Demonskin Adept also being good, but it's the only PP in the game that has major drawbacks.

Also, this will help you a ton.

ya i've read all the handbooks.

I'm thinking of wild mage simply for the utility and the daily.

[Mando Knight]

Swap Charisma and Dexterity to boost your to-hit, then switch Intelligence and Constitution for one extra HP, an extra Healing Surge, and an extra point of Fortitude defense at the cost of one point in Int-based skills, which aren't your specialty anyway.