Best Non-Human Socerer Race <3.5>

[Machiavellian]

I plan on doing the following this sunday:

Sorcerer 5/Sandshaper 1/Mage of the Arcane Order 6/Fatespinner 3/Arcane Avatar 5

What race is "Optimal" that isn't human (preferably, more "Exotic"). And cheesewrought kobold is a nono

we start at lv9 with all books and D&D wiki allowed. Straight 18's across the board for stats

[Touchy]

Dragonwrought DESERT kobold.

In more seriousness, few non-LA races give CHA without CON loss, so about any that don't give CON loss is good. Hell, non-dragonwrought(/not abusing dragonwrought) kobold is good with races of the dragon.(Then again, I just like kobolds.) so you can gain access to dragon-blooded sorcerer spells.

Edit: More optimally, Dragonborn, since you gain additional CON, take a race with -2 CON penalty, and now you don't lose any CON.

[Draz74]

Lesser Aasimar comes to mind.

[Machiavellian]

I'm allowed up to 2 LA to play with

[Touchy]

I'm allowed up to 2 LA to play with

Buyoff? Because otherwise it's still not worth it.

[Octopus Jack]

Lesser Aasimar comes to mind.

+1 to this, no drawbacks or LA... Let the fun begin!

[Machiavellian]

+1 to this, no drawbacks or LA... Let the fun begin!

My DM is ignoring up to 2LA

[Octopus Jack]

My DM is ignoring up to 2LA

OK throw some templates on yourself as well just need to think of some good LA+2 ones

[Irreverent Fool]

My DM is ignoring up to 2LA

Death-touched (Dragon 313) have +1 LA and grant +4 Cha, -2 Con, +2 Wis with a favored class of Sorcerer.

The Draconic template (Races of the Dragon) grants +2 Con, +2 Str, +2 Cha for +1 LA.

So a Draconic Death-Touched has +2 Str, +2 Wis, +6 Cha and an LA of +2. Works out pretty well without being too cheesy. You get some other nice stuff, too.

The Half-Fey Template (Fiend Folio) has +2 LA and grants +4 Cha along with a few spell-like abilities based on HD and you gain a flight speed and DR to boot. It does have -2 Con though. Oh, also, charm person at will.

The Half-Nymph template (Dragon 313) is also +2 LA and has nothing but bonuses, including +4 Cha. The Awesome Beauty ability is good against humanoids, even with its low DC (it is based on racial hit dice), since enemies in range must make a new check every round even if they had previously succeeded on the save. Half-Nymphs are always female.

The Half-Vampire template (Libris Mortis) is one of my favorites at LA +2. You get to be a vampire without the 1,001 weaknesses. A mere +2 Charisma, though.

The Entropic template (Planar Handbook) is LA +2, +2 Cha and grants a ranged touch attack that deals negative energy damage based on Charisma.

The Fire-Souled template (Dragon 314) is ridiculous at LA +1, granting the Leadership feat for free, +4 Cha, haste 1/day, immunity to stunning and daze and the ability to screw up other creature's Charisma-based attacks. Good luck getting it past your DM, but combine it with another +1 LA race or template and go to town if you can. A Fire-Souled Deathtouched will get:

• The [Fire] subtype (along with its immunity/vulnerabilities)
• Leadership
• Immunity to stunning and daze
• Haste 1/day
• Chill Touch 1/day
• Overwhelming Passion (Screw up others' Cha-based attacks)
• Morale bonuses to allies
• Fire Immunity
• Cold Vulnerability
• Cold Resistance 5
• Electric Resistance 5
• -2 Con
• +2 Wis
• +8 Charisma
• +2 Level Adjustment

The immunity to dazing is quite nice as you can cast celerity all day long with no side-effects.

More detailed info is available on CrystalKeep and the relevant books.

A note on the 'ignoring +2 LA' thing. I tried this for awhile in the campaign I run. The idea was that everyone starts at the same level, but those who chose to take level adjustments gained experience based on their ECL. Every six levels, they could reduce their LA by 1 (for free).

It didn't work out so well and now I rather regret the decision, but can't really rescind it.

[Machiavellian]

Maybe Deepwyrm Drow?

[Touchy]

My DM is ignoring up to 2LA

Oh, then go for something specifically with 2LA, simply because those can be "Better".

White Dragonspawn(Dragonlance campaign setting) Dragonborn(Races of the dragon) Spellscale(races of the dragon). +1 LA, you start with +1 caster level, and a whole lot of natural armor(You'll make the fighter cry).

We still have 1 LA(Or two if you have dragons of Kyrn), your stats look like this.

+2 con +2 Cha +7 natural armor, and you cast as a second level sorcerer at level 1, so your abit ahead of the wizard, and you still have dragonblood spells.


Edit: Did I mention you make your fighter cry, and nevermind, I'm guessing you want a more traditional sorcerer, so go his way for more CHA.

[Machiavellian]

Oh, then go for something specifically with 2LA, simply because those can be "Better".

White Dragonspawn(Dragonlance campaign setting) Dragonborn(Races of the dragon) Spellscale(races of the dragon). +1 LA, you start with +1 caster level, and a whole lot of natural armor(You'll make the fighter cry).

We still have 1 LA(Or two if you have dragons of Kyrn), your stats look like this.

+2 con +2 Cha +7 natural armor, and you cast as a second level sorcerer at level 1, so your abit ahead of the wizard, and you still have dragonblood spells.


Edit: Did I mention you make your fighter cry, and nevermind, I'm guessing you want a more traditional sorcerer, so go his way for more CHA.

Might Combo this with that Death-Touched template above

[Touchy]

Might Combo this with that Death-Touched template above

Note: If your DM has dragons of Kryn, the template was nerfed, if you don't stay dominated by the dragon, you count as +2 LA, so if you don't use that book you're good to go with that method.

[Machiavellian]

Note: If your DM has dragons of Kryn, the template was nerfed, if you don't stay dominated by the dragon, you count as +2 LA, so if you don't use that book you're good to go with that method.

was the plan.

[Gnaeus]

If the first 2 LA are free, I would consider Pixie. Good stats, constant flight and superior invisibility, DR, SR 22+, and spell likes might be worth a loss of 2 caster levels.

[Optimystik]

Lesser Aasimar + Saint (+2 LA), very thematically appropriate. (Saint even gives you back the "Outsider" status you lost to be a Lesser Aasimar, in addition to its other great benefits.)

From there, go into Exalted Arcanist and Archmage.

[Irreverent Fool]

Looks like lots of posts were made while I was editing in some additions. I endorse the Fire-Souled Death-Touched because it is crazy.

[Machiavellian]

Lesser Aasimar + Saint (+2 LA), very thematically appropriate. (Saint even gives you back the "Outsider" status you lost to be a Lesser Aasimar, in addition to its other great benefits.)

From there, go into Exalted Arcanist and Archmage.

Might take the Exalted Arcanist, but am using Arcane Avatar from Mongoose's Quintessential Wizard

[Optimystik]

Might take the Exalted Arcanist, but am using Arcane Avatar from Mongoose's Quintessential Wizard

What are the benefits of that one?

Exalted Arcanist is an excellent addition. Not only does its theme dovetail perfectly with Aasimar and Sainthood, but you get two bonus spells known at each level of the PrC. This includes the Planar Ally line, which allows you to qualify for Thaumaturgist if you choose to be a summoner. In addition, you can double-dip - Use your Exalted Metamagic feats (Consecrate Spell, Purify Spell and one other) to qualify for both Sainthood and for EA.

The capstone adds every sanctified spell in the game to your spells known, giving your list a huge boost.

Total Ability Adjustments for a Lesser Aasimar Saint: +4 Wis, +6 Cha, +2 Con. (Did I mention Saint gives you Wis to AC?)

[Irreverent Fool]

Might take the Exalted Arcanist, but am using Arcane Avatar from Mongoose's Quintessential Wizard

Mmm cheese. I played an Arcane Avatar once. It was made worse because I convinced the DM to let me PrC into it at level 11 by use of a wish the character had acquired.

Using 2 spell slots to cast any spell of the same or lower level is ridiculous. Just make sure you don't bog the game down by leafing through books to decide what to cast.

White Dragonspawn(Dragonlance campaign setting) Dragonborn(Races of the dragon) Spellscale(races of the dragon)... ahead of the wizard

In caster level, such a character will be ahead of the wizard, but in spell advancement, he will only be on par (which granted is still a great boost to the sorcerer).

What are the benefits of that one?
The (Arcanist's) capstone adds every sanctified spell in the game to your spells known, giving your list a huge boost.

The Arcane Avatar gets SR, -1 adjustment to any two metamagics, access to every sorcerer/wizard spell, counterspelling without expending spells, the ability to recover spells, antimagic field, and the ability to increase the DCs of all spells in an area.

The 'Call Spell' ability is gained at level 3 of the PrC, but specifically mentions "when preparing spells for the day, the Avatar may sacrifice two spell slots of a given level to prepare one spell of the same level from his spell lists". The downside of this is that it doesn't appear that a spontaneous caster gains any benefit from this. The upside is that it calls out "spell lists" rather than specifically arcane lists. This means a 1-level dip into another class -- say, cleric -- grants access to the cleric lists as a wizard.

We must've houseruled some stuff in the campaign I'm remembering.

[aivanther]

Half-Nymph lesser aasimar. +6 Charisma and Awesome Beauty.

Half fey is sweet to, but you have the -2 Constitution. But 2x movespeed flight, at will Charm, a bunch o' SLA and immunity to Enchantment is just fun.

[deuxhero]

Are human variants acceptble?

If not, Strongheart Halfing+templates.

[balistafreak]

The Fire-Souled template (Dragon 314) is ridiculous at LA +1 -

OBJECTION!

I refused to believe that template was that good when I saw it. (Free feats, especially Leadership, for LA on a template? I dig.) Crystal Keep lists it as LA +1, but it's unfortunately CR +1, not LA +1. It's LA +3 from its original source, Dragon Magazine. Someone screwed up there.

And I'll agree that "free LA" campaigns get really degenerate, really fast.

[Irreverent Fool]

OBJECTION!

I refused to believe that template was that good when I saw it. (Free feats, especially Leadership, for LA on a template? I dig.) Crystal Keep lists it as LA +1, but it's unfortunately CR +1, not LA +1. It's LA +3 from its original source, Dragon Magazine. Someone screwed up there.

Aha. My mistake. I thought there was something wrong with it, too. That's what I get for not double-checking sources.

I'm tempted to finish off the Crystal Keep indexes from where they left off because of mistakes like this, but I don't think I'd be able to share the fruits of such labors.

And I'll agree that "free LA" campaigns get really degenerate, really fast.

It wasn't so bad in the beginning, but my campaigns tend to be a bit deadly and the inevitable new character rotation resulted in more and more ridiculous monsters joining the party. The player of the sole remaining character from the original group was left feeling punished for playing intelligently and not getting himself killed.

[Darrin]

The Fire-Souled template (Dragon 314) is ridiculous at LA +1

That's a typo in the Crystalkeep PDF. As printed in Dragon #314, the Fire-Souled template is LA +3.--ninja

Best LA +0 race for a sorcerer is probably Magic-Blooded Spellscale: -2 Con, -2 Wis, +4 Cha. Magic-Blooded is from Dragon #306 (LA +0, applies -2 Wis/+2 Cha to any base race). Spellscales are from Races of the Dragon. Spellscales start with an ability bonus on a casting stat along with something similar to a bonus feat. They get this daily meditation thingy that can give them a temporary feat for the day, most of which are metamagic related. Unfortunately, you can't use the feat for qualify for other feats/PrCs/etc. Fluff-wise I actually prefer Star Elves (Unapproachable East, also a -2 Con +2 Cha race), but crunch-wise the Spellscales have an advantage with the meditation/feat thingy, even though it can't be used to qualify for other metamagic feats.

Add Half-Nymph or Half-Fey on top of either of those for extra-sparkly awesomesauce.

[Machiavellian]

Might take a Lesser Aasimar Saint/Magic-Blooded Death-Touched Shadow Dragonspawn Spellscale with the Arcane Avatar. DM ruled that it works both ways (the cast spell thingy). Which ever 1's the better...

[Irreverent Fool]

Might take a Lesser Aasimar Saint/Magic-Blooded Death-Touched Shadow Dragonspawn Spellscale with the Arcane Avatar. DM ruled that it works both ways (the cast spell thingy). Which ever 1's the better...

Check the Book of Exalted Deeds. Saint is a pain to qualify for:

In order to qualify for sainthood, a character must meet the following qualifications, as well as any additional requirements set by the DM:

• Good alignment
• Three Exalted feats
• Must never have lost the benefit of any exalted feat
• Must at all times behave in a way the DM considers to be exemplary of the exalted path
• Must be at least 6th level
• Must make an extraordinary sacrifice

Where's Shadow Dragonspawn listed?

[Machiavellian]

Check the Book of Exalted Deeds. Saint is a pain to qualify for:

But worthwhile in the end, being a descendant of Astral Devas and all...

Where's Shadow Dragonspawn listed?

Using Shadow Dragon from Faerun, with Dragonspawn as the backdrop, build it to match the flavor of being the Spawn of Shadow Dragons

[Greenish]

Magic-Blooded Dragonic Aasimar isn't probably the strongest option, but it's pretty nifty. Outsider type(!), dragonblood subtype, native subtype, +6 Cha, +2 Strength, +2 Con.

[Edit]: And some natural armour, claws and so forth.

[Irreverent Fool]

Using Shadow Dragon from Faerun, with Dragonspawn as the backdrop, build it to match the flavor of being the Spawn of Shadow Dragons

That's between you and your DM, I suppose. Make sure you tie the ability modifiers to the proper LA.

Magic-Blooded Dragonic Aasimar isn't probably the strongest option, but it's pretty nifty. Outsider type(!), dragonblood subtype, native subtype, +6 Cha, +2 Strength, +2 Con.

What's so great about having the Outsider type as a character?