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Thread: Damage Reductionaries question
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2010-09-15, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Damage Reductionaries question
Ok, so I have a character who from class features has Damage Reduction 5/Adamantine, Silver and Evil
So how does this work? Does it have to be an evil silvered adamantine weapon or can all three be used to bypass it individually?
The former makes it very hard to hurt the character, while the last much easier.
Any official rulings I've missed on stacking damage reduction?
I know they don't all stack to get a DR 15, but some creatures like demons/devils have to be hurt by a weapon that is both good and silvered.
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2010-09-15, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
the highest applies. Therefore when 1 would be negated it would logically not be the highest. So you would need the evil silvered adamantine weapon to bypass all the DRs
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2010-09-15, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
Wait, you have DR 5/adamantine + DR 5/evil + DR 5/silver?
Then you have effectively DR 5/- unless it is possible to have a unholy silver adamantine weapon.
If you meant DR 5/adamantine and DR 5/silver and evil then you'd have DR 5 since it still is unlikely they have a silver adamantine weapon.
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2010-09-15, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
"And" means it must be all three. If it said "or", just one would be sufficient. But it says "and". All (non-elemental or force) damage that is not from an Adamantine Silver Evil-aligned weapon does five fewer points of damage to the character.
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2010-09-15, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
Yup. Playing a Green Star Adept (Adamantine), Were-chordevoc (Silver), Saint (Evil)
You can buy silvering to put over a weapon though, so its feasibly possible to bypass it if the ruling above is correct. Just not likely. Would have to go out of your way to try to hurt her.Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-09-15 at 12:24 PM.
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2010-09-15, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
I think by RAW there are no weapons that are silver and adamantine since a weapon can only be made from one material. If you buy that item that lets you apply the silvered property to a weapon this weapon transforms from an adamantine weapon to a silver weapon for the duration, but does not go through DR/adamantine anymore.
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2010-09-15, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
Sure, but isn't there some enhancement (shadowstriking or metalline or something) that overcomes metal-DR either as "whatever it last hit" or "as all of them"? You'd have to watch out for an unholy one of those, but really, how often is that going to come up?
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2010-09-15, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
There are some weapons that adept to whatever DR type of a target they just hit with various different rules (some imply they can only be 1 metal at a time, others don't).
Also there is a spell in Book of Exalted Deeds that makes a weapon deal damage as if adamantine for a limited time, and there is one for silver and one for cold iron, but the latter 2 may be Dragon Magazine only. I have seen a familiar companion that dealt Good, Adamantine, Cold Iron, Silver, Slashing, Piercing, Bludgeoning damage with its bite attacks.Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.
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2010-09-15, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
Yup, your DR is really DR 5/-- for all practical purposes. Differing damage reductions don't stack, but each must be overcome separately. Nice perk.
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2010-09-15, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
It's not that hard. The enemies just need an evil, adamantine weapon that they apply some type of silver weapon spell or alchemical effect to, or something that ignores DR (there are a good amount of weapon options that do this).
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2010-09-15, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
True. But I imagine the number of times that Vorpal Tribble will face enemies with the foreknowledge, means, and inclination to do this will be quite small. And really, with the effort required, it would be easier for most enemies to simply find a way to deal 5 additional points of damage instead.
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2010-09-15, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
Or the assassins* threatening that particular character could all come from a school of Ninja that has, as a class feature, an option that negates DR. Doesn't Swordsage have a maneuver that does it? And are there alchemical devices or spells that add 'overcomes adamantine based dr' as well as the silver based or alignment based ones?
*Because it's safe to assume that assassins attacking any powerful D&D character isn't THAT uncommon of an occurrence.Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2010-09-15 at 02:00 PM.
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2010-09-15, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
Unholy Silver Weapon and Ring of Adamantine Touch (6000 GP, MiC page 121). It is not DR 5/-.
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2010-09-15, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
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2010-09-15, 02:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
Actually you'd go with an aligned/holy adamantine weapon and wear Gauntlets of Weaponry Arcane from MIC. If the weapon is ACTUALLY adamantine, it gets the extra hp, hardness, and sundering issues. The gauntlets don't reduce your damage, but do treat any held weapon as silvered and magic for DR purposes.
A lot of DR is actually fairly cheap to get by once it gets ridiculous.
Gauntlets of Weaponry arcane- 6k
Cold Iron Ring- 6k (Forgotten Realms somewhere tho, so may be harder to get/allow)
Item of align weapon 3/day- should be fairly cheap
Adamantine Weapon of choice- extra 8k.
Backup Adamantine Weapon of Choice- 8k (Morningstar if you use slashing, dagger if you use Bludgeoning, otherwise longsword or similar depending on weapon style and feats)
Boom. The only damage reduction you should have to worry about is dr/-. Impractical at low level but very affordable once you start running into dr/15 _______ and _______. The Gauntlets are arguably the best of the bunch for anyone going a two-weapon route since you can usually get one expensive item at fairly low level and it eliminates the need to get magic weapons for quite some time.
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2010-09-15, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
Wait, what? I'm ashamed to say I have no idea what a were-chordevoc is, other then guessing that it's uses some weird were-not-wolf template from Savage Species. Also, wouldn't you lose your template abilities when you got to Green Star Adept 10 and become a Construct? And given all the mechanical difficulties (sky high LA, possibly racial HD, Green Star Adept suckitude) what do you do in combat other then sit around being mostly immune to stuff (thanks to Saint)?
Also, Gauntlets of Weaponry Arcane: Any weapon you wield counts as silver. 9,000 gp, Player’s Guide to Faerun pg 123.
And any creature which has DR/Whatever bypasses that DR with it's natural weapons. I'm sure there are plenty of templates could be stacked on top of one another to bypass your DR.Last edited by Person_Man; 2010-09-15 at 02:23 PM.
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2010-09-15, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
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2010-09-15, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
In 3.0 DR granted the ability to bypass DR. In 3.5 I thought they changed that to only DR/magic, DR/epic, and DR/alignment.
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2010-09-15, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
Lycanthrope template from the Monster Manual 3.5 using the Chordevoc from Races of the Wild (also 3.5).
Also, wouldn't you lose your template abilities when you got to Green Star Adept 10 and become a Construct?
And given all the mechanical difficulties (sky high LA, possibly racial HD, Green Star Adept suckitude) what do you do in combat other then sit around being mostly immune to stuff (thanks to Saint)?
Saint is only +2 LA and I get lots of immunities and reductions and abilities.
Only the saint LA keeps me from increasing. So +2 LA isn't exactly a biggie.
As for what else I can do, here is my entry into the Iron Optimisation Competion: Little Starry-Eyes
As for what I'm doing with it now, well, it's in a gestalt game. Nuff said?
And any creature which has DR/Whatever bypasses that DR with it's natural weapons. I'm sure there are plenty of templates could be stacked on top of one another to bypass your DR.
My question was simply how does it work together class-wise.
Looks like it is agreed it goes a powerful direction, but there are a number of specific, extensive, as well as ridiculous ways to get around it, and all of them require going out of your way to produce. With that I'm content.Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-09-15 at 02:43 PM.
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2010-09-15, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
Vorpal, you phrased the OP incorrectly, unless I'm much mistaken. Perhaps you can answer this question:
Do you have DR 5/silver, DR 5/adamantine, and DR 5/evil? Or do you have DR 5/silver, adamantine, and evil? These are completely different things.
If the former, you apply the highest relevant DR. Thus a silver weapon fails to bypass DR 5/adamantine or DR 5/evil, but succeeds in passing DR 5/silver. So it deals 5 less damage. The same applies for the other keywords. If someone hits you with an adamatine, evil, silvered weapon, then it would deal full damage.
Hmm...after working through this, it looks like DR 5/silver, DR 5/adamantine, and DR 5/evil really are equivalent to DR 5/silver, adamantine, and evil. However, there may be abilities that distinguish between the two, so it's still best not to confuse them.
Also, I remain amused that you're playing Little Starry Eyes. The impression I got was that she was optimized around sustained survival and combat in outer space...does that come up often in this game?Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2010-09-15, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
At 10th level the Green Star Adept gains the Emerald Perfection ability. His type changes to a Construct. I've never been a RAW expert and don't claim to be in this situation (I've been playing D&D too long - all the editions end up getting semi-jumbled in my head, especially 3.0/3.5/PF), but if I'm reading the ability correctly it means you lose your previous type. Thus you are no longer eligible for the lycanthrope template, which can only be applied to a humanoid or giant. And you are no longer eligible for the Saint template, which can only be applied to "living" creatures - Constructs are specifically "unliving matter" who are not subject to precision damage, critical hits, healing magic, etc. You also lose any abilities you might have from being a Human or Outsider or whatever. And you lose your Constitution score, and any hit point adjustment for Constitution.
Again, not claiming I'm right. Just seeking clarification.Last edited by Person_Man; 2010-09-15 at 03:04 PM.
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2010-09-15, 03:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
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2010-09-15, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
A projectile weapon with the Force special ability (MIC) would bypass all of your damage reduction. So...watch out for archers with glowing bows?
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2010-09-15, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Damage Reductionaries question
The easiest way to demonstrate this is to point out that there are some feats and abilities which will increase (and probably some to decrease, but I can't remember them) your damage reduction. If you have three types of damage reduction, it may only be affecting one of them, not all of them, which would mean you're more resistant to certain type of effects.