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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    So the duration of explosive runes is "permanent" and there doesn't seem to be a cost to cast the spell.

    Thus, is there any reason why a caster can't take a week to prepare dozens of pages of explosive runes, and then just rip them out of a book whenever necessary? Or for that matter, why a caster couldn't give everybody in the party a book of pages of explosive runes? It seems like this is rather overpowered, yet it also seems completely within the rules of the game.

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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiemobsta View Post
    So the duration of explosive runes is "permanent" and there doesn't seem to be a cost to cast the spell.

    Thus, is there any reason why a caster can't take a week to prepare dozens of pages of explosive runes, and then just rip them out of a book whenever necessary? Or for that matter, why a caster couldn't give everybody in the party a book of pages of explosive runes? It seems like this is rather overpowered, yet it also seems completely within the rules of the game.
    Almost everything broken about 3.5 has been noticed before. It works even better when you throw the book at an enemy and then intentionally fail to dispel the explosive runes. That way they don't have to look at it.
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    No, there is no reason that a mage can't do something like that.

    In fact, something that I've seen quite often around here is an Explosive Runes grenade, where you fill a book with runes, throw it, and cast Dispel Magic, causing them all to explode.

    Edit: Ninja'd.
    Last edited by Private-Prinny; 2010-06-02 at 10:01 PM.
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    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiemobsta View Post
    So the duration of explosive runes is "permanent" and there doesn't seem to be a cost to cast the spell.

    Thus, is there any reason why a caster can't take a week to prepare dozens of pages of explosive runes, and then just rip them out of a book whenever necessary? Or for that matter, why a caster couldn't give everybody in the party a book of pages of explosive runes? It seems like this is rather overpowered, yet it also seems completely within the rules of the game.
    Yeah, it's been noticed. Those who do notice that fact generally ignore it out of common courtesy, to keep the DM from responding to their book of explosive runes with a chucked book of his own.

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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    The problem is getting the bad guy to read your piece of parchment during a battle.

    "Here! Read this!" to which the reply would be, "No I think I am just going to stomp your @$$!"

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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Or a tribe of (illiterate) barbarians who protect their village with Explosive Runes all over tents, poles outside and gear.

    @^ All you need is for them to clearly see it. Once you can read, it just happens. Unless you avert your eyes you read something. So you could just shove it in their face of write it on your shirt of something.
    Last edited by PersonMan; 2010-06-02 at 10:04 PM.
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Private-Prinny View Post
    No, there is no reason that a mage can't do something like that.

    In fact, something that I've seen quite often around here is an Explosive Runes grenade, where you fill a book with runes, throw it, and cast Dispel Magic, causing them all to explode.

    Edit: Ninja'd.
    That would only work if you failed to dispel them. If it is your own runes, then you automatically dispel them according to Dispel Magic.

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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    Yeah, it's been noticed. Those who do notice that fact generally ignore it out of common courtesy, to keep the DM from responding to their book of explosive runes with a chucked book of his own.
    A chucked book? I would stick them in a library.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendel View Post
    That would only work if you failed to dispel them. If it is your own runes, then you automatically dispel them according to Dispel Magic.
    Actually, you can choose to automatically succeed. Since you only need one failed check to make them all go boom...
    Last edited by Private-Prinny; 2010-06-02 at 10:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Private-Prinny View Post
    A chucked book? I would stick them in a library.

    Edit:

    Actually, you can choose to automatically succeed. Since you only need one failed check to make them all go boom...
    Yeah, that would only take about a decade or so to set up.
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by PersonMan View Post
    Or a tribe of (illiterate) barbarians who protect their village with Explosive Runes all over tents, poles outside and gear.

    @^ All you need is for them to clearly see it. Once you can read, it just happens. Unless you avert your eyes you read something. So you could just shove it in their face of write it on your shirt of something.
    Good idea!

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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Private-Prinny View Post
    A

    Edit:

    Actually, you can choose to automatically succeed. Since you only need one failed check to make them all go boom...
    I juste read it as follows:

    SRD
    "You automatically succeed on your dispel check against any spell that you cast yourself."

    If you want to say that you can choose not to succeed that would be a personal interpretation. Who knows, maybe it is a safety valve to prevent things like dispeling your own Explosive Runes or something...

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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendel View Post
    I juste read it as follows:

    SRD
    "You automatically succeed on your dispel check against any spell that you cast yourself."

    If you want to say that you can choose not to succeed that would be a personal interpretation. Who knows, maybe it is a safety valve to prevent things like dispeling your own Explosive Runes or something...
    That's for a targeted dispel. We want an area dispel, which says this:
    "You may choose to automatically succeed on dispel checks against any spell that you have cast. "
    Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Defiant View Post
    Good idea!
    I'm imagining a village full of barbarians, wearing shirts that say "I'm part of an elaborate master protection plan and all I got was this stupid T-shirt!" that are explosive runes. Or ones that just say "Hi, I'm Bob." or something. Or just "KABOOM!"
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by NEO|Phyte View Post
    That's for a targeted dispel. We want an area dispel, which says this:
    "You may choose to automatically succeed on dispel checks against any spell that you have cast. "
    True, but that way you will be starting with the spell with the highest caster level and going down from there. Probably a hit and miss strategy at best if you want to specifically dispel something like Explosive Runes. Anyway, it could still be a viable tactic, but like the other comments on the thread, you should then beware of DM retribution! Bwah ha ha ha...
    Last edited by Hendel; 2010-06-02 at 10:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    This realization was the basis for a recent strategy in our last 3.5 game entited 'Explosive Sheep'

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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Unfortunately, a clever commoner with a telescope can blow up the entire barbarian city from afar.

    ...

    Actually, the text does say the spell affects anyone 'close enough to read them.' Does that mean, by RAW, you could read Explosive Runes through a Scrying spell and get an explosion to the face, no save, from half way across the material plane?
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dust View Post
    This realization was the basis for a recent strategy in our last 3.5 game entited 'Explosive Sheep'
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoodbyeSoberDay View Post
    Actually, the text does say the spell affects anyone 'close enough to read them.' Does that mean, by RAW, you could read Explosive Runes through a Scrying spell and get an explosion to the face, no save, from half way across the material plane?
    I think it depends on whether or not the DM thinks it would be funny.
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
    I think it depends on whether or not the DM thinks it would be funny.
    I guess so. The intent is obviously that the explosion is limited to 10 feet, though I find it odd that the designers of the spell didn't think of something as simple as someone reading the runes from 15 feet away. Maybe they all wear really thick glasses.
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Private-Prinny View Post
    A chucked book? I would stick them in a library.

    Edit:

    Actually, you can choose to automatically succeed. Since you only need one failed check to make them all go boom...
    Wording's kinda weird. IIRC, you just dispel them if you use Targeted. Area, on the other hand, doesn't have that text, so you check against each one.. which is what you want anyway, since a Targeted dispel will only hit one writing of the Runes.

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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoodbyeSoberDay View Post
    I guess so. The intent is obviously that the explosion is limited to 10 feet, though I find it odd that the designers of the spell didn't think of something as simple as someone reading the runes from 15 feet away. Maybe they all wear really thick glasses.
    I suppose you could do that if the print was very large. I personally have difficulty reading 10 point font from 15 feet.
    Also, I like to think the spell is smarter than that. I mean, if it knows your reading it, it should at least have someway around you trying to screw with it.

    A telescope, Eh? SCORCHING RAY!

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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumSteve View Post
    I suppose you could do that if the print was very large. I personally have difficulty reading 10 point font from 15 feet.
    Also, I like to think the spell is smarter than that. I mean, if it knows your reading it, it should at least have someway around you trying to screw with it.

    A telescope, Eh? SCORCHING RAY!
    No.

    A telescope, Eh? 10 MILE BOMB!

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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    And this is why D&D had a DM to arbitrate things rather then being completely silly :P
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    The spell amanuensis (Spell Compendium 9) copies text between pieces of paper or from one part of a page to another. This sets off explosive runes without dispel magic.
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoodbyeSoberDay View Post
    Unfortunately, a clever commoner with a telescope can blow up the entire barbarian city from afar.

    ...

    Actually, the text does say the spell affects anyone 'close enough to read them.' Does that mean, by RAW, you could read Explosive Runes through a Scrying spell and get an explosion to the face, no save, from half way across the material plane?
    By extension, if someone 5,000 miles away is close enough to read, someone only 1,000 miles away is also close enough. Therefore, the explosion must extend to fill the 10,000 mile diameter sphere.

    Want to get rid of an enemy capitol? You need two people - the suicide bomber that stands in the center of the city with the "Guess what spell I prepared today" tee-shirt and the sacrificial diviner scrying on him from the outskirts.

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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    The ways of purposely failing a dispel check are:
    - Get your cohort to cast dispel magic, since it'll be a lower CL and much more likely to fail
    - Cast it from a wand/scroll
    - Get the ability to take 10 on CL checks, and make sure that all your previous castings were at CL+11 or higher

    The dispel used will have to be an area dispel, I believe, since you're trying to affect multiple things.

    Also, on long-range detonation: explosive runes on the moon (idea from Lycanthromancer)
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    You would have to first touch the moon.
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    I may have some NPCs have a library full of Explosive Rune books in a tower somewhere as a contingency (no, not Contingency or Craft Contingent Spell) plan. This would be more of a plot point than a "Hey, let's kill the PCs!" kind of moment, but yeah.
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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    Quote Originally Posted by lsfreak View Post
    The ways of purposely failing a dispel check are:
    - Get your cohort to cast dispel magic, since it'll be a lower CL and much more likely to fail
    - Cast it from a wand/scroll
    - Get the ability to take 10 on CL checks, and make sure that all your previous castings were at CL+11 or higher
    -use Dispel Ward (Spell Compendium), which is a 1st level Dispel Magic.. that only affects Abjurations. As a 1st level spell, you can choose to cast it at CL 1.

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    Default Re: Anyone else noticed this about explosive runes?

    While not nearly as funny as Explosive Runes, the spell Fire Shuriken (Complete Arcane) also has a permanent-until-used duration (it might be worded as "instantaneous," since I don't have my book open, but it's essentially the same as our favorite runes), so you can make a stockpile of them if you care to. They're hardly game-breaking or even that powerful, but if you happen to have a shuriken-user in the party, they might appreciate doing 3d6 instead of 1d2. That, or you can arm an entire village with them, which makes me laugh.

    It's a little tricky to GET said spell (it's on the Wu Jen and Assassin lists by default), and like I said it's hardly abusive at all, but I've always thought it might be worthwhile to build up a stockpile just because you can.

    There's also Water to Acid (Stormwrack), which has an instantaneous duration and creates a truly large quantity of acid, assuming you have a supply of water (such as, you know, Create Water, or a Decanter of Endless Water, or a good Survival check, or...) You can surely find a use for a Portable Hole filled with acid, right?
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