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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Epic Invocation (Temporarily Closed while I edit)

    Okay, so, this is something that I think a lot of people(myself included) would like for an epic game including a warlock. Spellcasters get a lot of powerful spells and a multitude of freedoms in creating them, why should warlocks not get the same?

    This is just an idea I had, feel free to critique and/or slam me for anything you dislike so that it can be improved. :-) I sincerely apologize if this is already existing in some form somewhere, but I couldn't find it.

    Epic Invoking
    Prerequisites: Spellcraft 24 ranks, Knowledge(arcana) 24 ranks, ability to use dark invocations.
    Benefit: You can develop and cast epic invocations. You can cast an epic invocation any number of times per day, just like a normal invocation. However, you may only know a number of epic invocations at any time equal to your ranks in Knowledge(arcana) divided by 10.(round down)

    Epic Invocations
    Epic invocations work much like epic spells, however, you draw from an entirely different set of seeds and factors. Epic invocations are difficult to create, and thus, you may never mitigate one below the original dc of the seeds themselves without any factors. So Blastform, a DC 16 seed, could never be mitigated below DC 16.

    Seeds

    Seed: Blastform
    Transmutation
    Spellcraft DC: 16
    Range: 60 ft.
    Target: Your eldritch blast
    This seed is used to modify your eldritch blast's shape. As usual, you may only apply one blast-shape to any eldritch blast. Range, area, and target factors applied to this seed modify your eldritch blast when using this blast-shape. Any other factors applied only work if the invocation uses another seed. You may combine blast-shapes and essences, but you may still only have one essence and one blast-shape on any one eldritch blast. (So while you could develop a single invocation that both imbues your eldritch blast with sonic and turns it into a fireball-type explosion, that would count as both your essence and blast-shape.)

    Seed: Power
    Evocation (Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity, Sonic, or Force)
    Spellcraft DC: 25
    Range: 100 ft.
    Target: One creature, or one object of 1,000 lbs. or less, or a bolt 5 ft. wide by 100 ft. long.
    Saving Throw: Reflex half
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    This seed creates a blast of energy, or wreathes an object or creature in destructive force. This deals 0d6 points of damage of one type of energy(Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity, or Sonic). To increase the amount of damage dealt, increase the DC by +2 for each d6. To increase the maximum object weight, increase the DC by +1 for each 100 pounds. If you choose a specific creature or object instead of a bolt, they take a -4 penalty to their save.

    By increasing the spellcraft DC by +8, you can develop an invocation that uses force energy. This can either be force damage, or you can create an effect that mimics telekinesis. You can push creatures or objects up to 10 ft. in any direction, increase the DC by +2 for every 5 ft.

    If this effect is made into an eldritch blast, your eldritch blast deals damage of the type of energy chosen, plus bonus damage equal to whatever damage this effect would normally give.

    Seed: Morph
    Transmutation
    Spellcraft DC: 32
    Range: 100 ft.
    Duration: 24 hours.
    Target: One creature, or one object of 1,000 lbs. or less
    Saving Throw: Fortitude neg.
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    This seed transforms the target into another form. This form must be the same size and type as their natural form. To use a different type, add 3 to the DC. Add 2 to the DC for each increment of size change. Add +8 to the DC to add the creature's spell-like, extraordinary, or supernatural abilities.

    You can transmute materials into other materials, but for each 1 hardness that must be changed, add +1 to the DC.

    Factors

    {table=head]Factor|Spellcraft DC Modifier
    Range
    Increase Range by 100% of original range|+4

    Special
    Change to Eldritch Essence1|-10
    1. The warlock's primary destructive power is in his eldritch blast, and this factor is in place to encourage you to stick by that. When you add this factor to an epic invocation, the invocation becomes an eldritch essence, and follows all the rules for one. See the blastform seed for information on combining essences and blast-shapes.
    [/table]

    I'm also open to ideas for factors or seeds for epic invoking. I apologize sincerely if this offends anyone, I'm new to homebrewing and this is just an idea I had for a mechanic for epic invocations. Thanks very much for critiquing.
    Last edited by Magicyop; 2010-07-29 at 05:07 PM.
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    Thumbs up Re: Epic Invocation (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    I like it, actually. Warlocks have style, but until now, Epic Fighters were almost stronger than Epic warlocks.
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    Default Re: Epic Invocation (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    This is incredibly easy to break, as skill bonuses are one of the easiest things to powergame in 3.5. That, and some Epic magic can get RIDICULOUS, and can often be mitigated fairly low.

    I think it would be better to write up a bunch of specific epic Invocations.

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    Default Re: Epic Invocation (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    Perhaps instead, give examples of turning specific epic and high-level spells into invocations?
    There were a bunch of epic warlock feats on the wizards page, which gave an array of ninth and eight level spells at will, and I think those were actually powerful enough...
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    Default Re: Epic Invocation (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    Thank you all for your critiques,

    First of all, about being easy to break. It may be, but it's only based off of epic spellcasting, which is just as breakable. I like the idea of epic casters having to create their own powers, but you're right- it easily works out to break. Maybe I could figure out a way to fix that- what about No Rituals for epic invocations(Since they are a much more personal thing than epic spells)? That would negate tricks like dispersing XP cost among followers or using Leadership to get insane subtractions from their spells.
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    Default Re: Epic Invocation (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    One of the main problems with that approach is that the costs for developing epic spells are either utterly crippling or trivial, depending on whether or not you use mitigation, and how much of it. Basically, developing even the equivalent of an 8th or 9th level spell already there as an epic spell can become so expensive, that you can't pay the cost, unless you mitigate it. And then, the easiest way is to mitigate it to 0.

    Also, I don't think "it's similar to X, which is just as broken, but legal" really shouldn't be an excuse.
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    Default Re: Epic Invocation (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Magicyop View Post
    Thank you all for your critiques,

    First of all, about being easy to break. It may be, but it's only based off of epic spellcasting, which is just as breakable.
    Not really. Epic casting is 1/day per 10 ranks in a skill. So, reasonably, 1-2 per day. This is at will. Assuming you mitigate enough effects (and, if you can't, it's fairly worthless), it becomes insanely overpowered.

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    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

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    Default Re: Epic Invocation (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    How can you really judge the broken/unbrokenness of it, until you see his seeds and factors? If he's careful with his mitigation, he might come up with something interesting.
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    Default Re: Epic Invocation (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    How can you really judge the broken/unbrokenness of it, until you see his seeds and factors? If he's careful with his mitigation, he might come up with something interesting.
    The original post hinted very strongly that the system was merely the Epic Spellcasting system with the x2 DC clause. If this weren't the case, the x2 DC clause wouldn't be necessary, as there'd be a whole new system.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
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    1 Lime Wedge


    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Epic Invocation (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    My original intent had been a mechanic to adapt the original epic spellcasting system for invocations, but from the comments I've read, and some bits I've been thinking about, it seems it might be better to actually make new seeds/factors. You're all right that it could work about to be quite broken, and that would be, of course, bad. I've got a couple ideas for factors and seeds, but I'll try to think on some more. As always, please be candid, I'd rather work on this and make it better then leave it as a bad idea since no one is willing to slam me.
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    Default Re: Epic Invocation (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    Why is there a weight requirment in the Power seed? It seems weird and pointless and seems it may be a copy paste error.
    I also noticed that the rule for making normal invocations (spellcraft DC*2) has been taken down, and hasn't been replaced with anything.
    Last edited by Dante & Vergil; 2010-07-28 at 07:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Epic Invocation (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante & Vergil View Post
    Why is there a weight requirment in the Power seed? It seems weird and pointless and seems it may be a copy paste error.
    I also noticed that the rule for making normal invocations (spellcraft DC*2) has been taken down, and hasn't been replaced with anything.
    Weight requirement is so you can't say, "I move the entire world." or, "I set the planet ablaze." The rule about just multiplying spellcraft times 2 would still lead to balance issues, so I went the different approach of creating an entirely new set of seeds and factors. I'm trying to be very careful about balance. I'm working on putting up more powers and seeds.

    EDIT: Running into troubles. The root of them is- with my current design, why would you NOT transform any of your invocations into an eldritch blast? -10 free to DC. Any ideas are welcomed.
    Last edited by Magicyop; 2010-07-28 at 08:41 PM.
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