Aasimar with Saint Template:

[Os1ris09]

Does any one think this combonation is broken and cheesy in any good campaign with the class being taken is cleric and its good PrC's.

The following build I am proposing to my DM if he allows LA buy off is:

Aasimar Saint

Cleric of Heironous 4/Ordained Champion 1/Bone Knight 10/Ordained champion 4/Cleric 1

Or the following class's

Warlock 1/Cloistered Cleric 4/Eldritch Discpile 15

The latter build already ok'ed with DM due to house rule that if a PrC has a full 10 lvls already then you can continue to advance in that PrC and gain the repeating benefits such as gift of the divine patron.

[Greenish]

Does any one think this combonation is broken and cheesy in any good campaign with the class being taken is cleric and its good PrC's.

The race + template combo isn't broken. The class is easy to break, though.

Saint is pretty powerful template, perhaps even worth the 2 LA.

Aasimar doesn't offer much, other than the Outsider type.

[Frog Dragon]

Go lesser aasimar (Player's guide to faerun) for the extra level of cleric casting.

[Optimystik]

Go lesser aasimar (Player's guide to faerun) for the extra level of cleric casting.

This, especially since the Saint Template makes you an Outsider anyway, so you can afford to trade it in and avoid the Aasimar LA.

[Os1ris09]

Go lesser aasimar (Player's guide to faerun) for the extra level of cleric casting.

Wish I could but I can't have campaign setting specific anything..... only reason bone knight may pass is because there isn't a region requirement or anything like that in the class itself bar the raise dead thing at lvl 5 but DM ruled that for regular zombies/skeletons

[Optimystik]

Then you're better off as a human since Saint makes you an Outsider anyway. Aasimar will give you next to nothing here.

If you really want to be an Outsider at first level, go Neraphim instead.

[Os1ris09]

Then you're better off as a human since Saint makes you an Outsider anyway. Aasimar will give you next to nothing here.

If you really want to be an Outsider at first level, go Neraphim instead.

Are they printed in a book? If not I can't do it.....

[Claudius Maximus]

Neraphim can be found in the Planar Handbook.

[2xMachina]

Lesser isn't campaign specific. It is stated in a campaign book, but it does not require any setting.

Also, Aasimars CAN'T be Saints if they're not the lesser variety. Saints require humanoid, which Aasimars aren't. Lesser fixes that, and removes 1LA. Good all around.

[Os1ris09]

It is located in the planar handbook? I will check it out.

Edit: Still DM has trouble letting bone knight work because it is listed in an Eberron book and the mere fact that lesser Aasimar is in Player's Guide to Faerun hurts the chances of it being accepted. SO........... I may have to go human since Aasimar can't become a saint. Oh well I get a bonus Feat and extra skill points.

[Gnorman]

I want to see the in-character justification for being a sainted commander of the undead.

Should be an interesting cognitive dance.

[Optimystik]

Also, Aasimars CAN'T be Saints if they're not the lesser variety. Saints require humanoid, which Aasimars aren't. Lesser fixes that, and removes 1LA. Good all around.

Nitpick - The only race restriction on Saints is that they cannot be Outsiders or Elementals, not that they have to be humanoid. So you can be an Elan Saint, a Dragon Saint, and even a Necropolitan Saint.

[arguskos]

I want to see the in-character justification for being a sainted commander of the undead.

Should be an interesting cognitive dance.

I was gonna mention that. How are you a Saint who has levels in Bone Knight? That just doesn't seem to flow together super well. Are undead not auto-evil in your DMs world or somesuch (not a bad thing)?

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

i belive the basic answer here is that the dm's setting must allow for good aligned death gods. . .

[Os1ris09]

None of the above. The DM says that messing with necromantic effects for a good purpose is a "good" act. However to use those powers to fulfill your own ends is evil. So if I raise a corpse from the dead to have it aid in a good act such as slaying a black dragon harassing a town or slaying a devil or demon then the purpose of the spell is for good. Therefore leading to the saint template which dm states as thus "you must always strive for good deeds, no matter how you must attain them."

SO....... Behold the undead good aligned character. Therefore leading to undead are not inherently evil. HOWEVER, already animated undead not under control of a good character are evil, just the ones I raise are evil just can't do evil things while under my influence.

[Tanuki Tales]

Could always try to see if you could make the Undead raised Deathless instead of undead.

[Os1ris09]

Could always try to see if you could make the Undead raised Deathless instead of undead.

This is true. That template is in the BoED correct?

[balistafreak]

So you can be an Elan Saint, a Dragon Saint, and even a Necropolitan Saint.

I once attempted to run a Tainted Scholar (progressing Sorcerer) Necropolitan Saint in a game.

... yeah, it didn't fly with the DM at all.

"So your character is an undead glowing with holy energies who fuels his casting off of all that is evil in this world."

"Yes?"

"NO."

There were probably alignment restrictions I was overlooking too, but it was at least a silly concept. And good, to boot!

[Optimystik]

This is true. That template is in the BoED correct?

Yes, and ECS too.

@ "Sainted Scholar": that is deeply disturbing.

[balistafreak]

@ "Sainted Scholar": that is deeply disturbing.

As a Sorcerer, I had him take Divine Sorcerer (I think that's what it's called, from Dragon Magazine, eeeeew ) to pick the Spell Domain. Divine Sorcerer lets you learn one domain spell, freely switchable after a rest. Guess what the Spell Domain has? Anyspell.

So I could prepare a small portfolio of combat-specific tricks just like a Wizard, while spontaneously casting essentially at-will. If I really wanted to be evil, I could just say that "I've Anyspelled every spell possible in existence" but... yeah. I don't use Polymorph for that reason - it might let you solve any problem, but then the game's boring and why are you playing again?

In retrospect, this was definitely not a character for the normal player. Even all my plans of holding back (good lord, I took the most unoptimal Sorcerer spells-known list ever) probably wouldn't have been enough.

"Sainted Scholar" does have a nice ring to it though. Holy Power is such a nice add-on when you can't advance your spell DCs through any other means. (Necropolitan Tainted Scholars can get infinite spells via infinite Depravity, which undead can gain, but without a way to gain Corruption, their spell DCs are frozen. Admittedly at a relatively high number at first, but if the game progressed I would actually fall behind.)

If it helps the character was also a Silverbrow Human for Disguise as a class skill and the dragonblooded subtype to power up Wings of Cover.

[Dracons]

Saint. Ha. I laughed at my player who suggested he be allowed to have that. It's only a plus two template! I should be allowed to have it!

Um. No.

[sonofzeal]

There were probably alignment restrictions I was overlooking too, but it was at least a silly concept. And good, to boot!

Nope, it's totally RAW-legal. Sorta.

Necropolitan makes you Undead, but doesn't require an alignment or behaviour change. Tainted Scholar only requires taint, and again there's no alignment or behaviour piece to that. All the alignment and behaviour restrictions are from Saint.

And actually, it's not nearly as abusive as it might seem. The normal trick is to go Tainted Scholar + Necropolitan, then pump your Taint score up arbitrarily high. However, the best and easiest ways to pump your Taint score are by casting Evil spells, which the Saint can't do. He then has a very hard time abusing the Tainted Scholar mechanic. Really, his best option to build Taint is to fight a heck of a lot of the vilest evils out there, and gain Taint by exposure that way. I'd think of it like a Malconvoker, turning the dark energies against themselves.

"Early in my career I was captured and forced through this process to turn me undead. But now I am immune to much of their darkest weapons, and can turn their own energies against them to strike them down in the glorious name of Heironeous himself! All hail the gods of light!"

[true_shinken]

Lesser isn't campaign specific. It is stated in a campaign book, but it does not require any setting.

I wonder if people actually bothered to READ the lesser races.
There being lesser races is a DM choice. You can't have a single lesser aasimar; either all aasimars are lesser or there are no lesser aasimar. Sure, you could get it past a DM, but it's not RAW - it's a house rule.
You can't any more campaign specific than this; it's a choise of race that defines how that entire race functions in the world.

[Sliver]

I wonder if people actually bothered to READ the lesser races.
There being lesser races is a DM choice. You can't have a single lesser aasimar; either all aasimars are lesser or there are no lesser aasimar. Sure, you could get it past a DM, but it's not RAW - it's a house rule.
You can't any more campaign specific than this; it's a choise of race that defines how that entire race functions in the world.

The entire thing is a variant and it says that the DM should use it across the board... And it's a variant to the campaign your playing, not the Faerun setting.

[2xMachina]

Variants are still RAW. Not always used, but still RAW.

[Sliver]

Doesn't make it campaign specific. Like anything, it's up to the DM, but just because it's a variant in a campaign setting book, doesn't mean it is specific to that setting.

[2xMachina]

Doesn't make it campaign specific. Like anything, it's up to the DM, but just because it's a variant in a campaign setting book, doesn't mean it is specific to that setting.

I know. I was replying to True_Shinken, who thinks variants are house-rules.

EDIT: Or did you get delete ninja'ed?

[Gorbash]

Does any one think this combonation is broken and cheesy in any good campaign with the class being taken is cleric and its good PrC's.

The following build I am proposing to my DM if he allows LA buy off is:

Aasimar Saint

Cleric of Heironous 4/Ordained Champion 1/Bone Knight 10/Ordained champion 4/Cleric 1

Or the following class's

Warlock 1/Cloistered Cleric 4/Eldritch Discpile 15

The latter build already ok'ed with DM due to house rule that if a PrC has a full 10 lvls already then you can continue to advance in that PrC and gain the repeating benefits such as gift of the divine patron.

Are you sure that being Saint and Bone Knight is such a good idea? Yes, I know that Ordained Champion/Bone Knight is a good combo, but you have to remember that, as a Saint, you have to be epytome of good and I'm not sure that undead-raising, skeletal mount-riding, bone armor-wearing cleric qualifies.

I mean, just look at the picutre:



You might wanna check that with the DM first, since Saint template SPECIFICALLY states that you have to be paragon of Exalted, which I'm not sure you can, given the fluff of the Bone Knight prestige class.

[Tanuki Tales]

Are you sure that being Saint and Bone Knight is such a good idea? Yes, I know that Ordained Champion/Bone Knight is a good combo, but you have to remember that, as a Saint, you have to be epytome of good and I'm not sure that undead-raising, skeletal mount-riding, bone armor-wearing cleric qualifies.

I mean, just look at the picutre:



You might wanna check that with the DM first, since Saint template SPECIFICALLY states that you have to be paragon of Exalted, which I'm not sure you can, given the fluff of the Bone Knight prestige class.

Just get the DM to make what you raise Deathless instead of Undead.

[Ravens_cry]

Just get the DM to make what you raise Deathless instead of Undead.

I always found deathless more evil then undead. Negative energy is merely an alternate élan vital, alien, but no more evil then antimatter. Deathless,. being fuelled by a surge of positive energy, are a perversion of the life force of the world, living past their span appointed span using the energy that should be returned to the world with their demise.