Powergaming a Bard

[Raistlin1040]

Alright, ladies and gentlemen, it is time for an epic challenge of epic proportions. The task? Level 7 bard. No race restrictions. No PrC restrictions. This party is already absurdly stacked, so my general qualms with powergaming like a boss are so far out the window. With that in mind, how absurdly OP can I make this (generally) underpowered class? Pathfinder Bard is also approved. This is a 3.5 game.

[WarKitty]

Alright, ladies and gentlemen, it is time for an epic challenge of epic proportions. The task? Level 7 bard. No race restrictions. No PrC restrictions. This party is already absurdly stacked, so my general qualms with powergaming like a boss are so far out the window. With that in mind, how absurdly OP can I make this (generally) underpowered class? Pathfinder Bard is also approved. This is a 3.5 game.

Leadership?

[Raistlin1040]

That was my first thought. That is apparently the one restriction, in that it's a feat that only 2 of the 6 PCs (sometimes 7) get, at DM discrection, in some kind of story event.

[Flickerdart]

Behold the Bardzilla link in my signature. 7th level Bard gets you Persisted Glibness, or you can swing Bladeweave and daze your way to victory.

[Marriclay]

Behold the Bardzilla link in my signature. 7th level Bard gets you Persisted Glibness, or you can swing Bladeweave and daze your way to victory.

definitely seconded

[Raistlin1040]

I'm running on very little sleep, due to being kept up all night by a crying robot baby, so I'm going to need this explained to me. If I can't take Metamagic Song until 9th level, I don't see how this works.

Although, given that I was sort of invited to powergame, I can probably take flaws.

[Beorn080]

From the SRD, use the variant bard that grants animal companion in exchange for bardic knowledge and the inspire line of songs. At level 7, you can start with a Dire Ape. With all the bards buff spells, you can pump it nicely. Plus, Alter Self. I'm sure there is something out there that shares a type with Dire Ape that is even nastier.

[Vaynor]

Badge of Valor item(CAd): +1 to Inspire Courage
Song of the Heart feat(Ebberon): +1 to Inspire Courage
Inspirational Boost spell(CAd): +1 to Inspire Courage
Masterwork Instrument(CAd): +1 to Inspire Courage if you pick the right type. These are found in the Complete Adventurer.
Words of Creation(BoED): Doubles your Inspire Courage Bonus. You take some nonlethal damage though, but you can work around that easily.
Dragonfire Inspiration feat(Dragon Magic): converts your Inspire Courage bonus of x into elemental damage of xd6. Default is fire, if you have the blood of, say, a silver dragon from being a Silverbrow Human, you can toggle between fire and cold damage.
Melodic Casting feat(CMage): allows you to use a Perform check in place of Concentration for spells, as well as letting you cast spells while you sing.
Lingering Song feat(CAd): Your bard song lasts for 10 rounds after you finish singing.
OR
Harmonizing Weapon enchantment(MIC): Your weapon will hold a song for you for 10 rounds. This allows you to use regular Inspire Courage and Dragonfire Inspiration at the same time.
Gloves of the Balanced Hand item(MIC), gives you TWF if you don't have it already.
Snowflake Wardance feat(Frostburn): adds your Charisma modifier to attack rolls with light slashing weapons that you wield in one hand. Costs one use of bardic music to activate as a swift action.
Songblade(CAd): +1 bardic music per day
Song of the White Raven (ToB): swift action singing

So basically you have an IC bonus of 12 at 9th level when you can pull this all off. That's +12 attack and damage, as well as +12d6 fire or cold damage.

Spend two rounds singing, a different song each time, then buff the party with Haste, cast some other spells if necessary, and then wade in and TWF everything in sight to death.

Quote from someone a while back, I forget who, I just saved it in a text document.

Also, Sublime Chord is the way to go, or a quick dip into Seeker of the Song for their nifty abilities.

@v: He's not always going to be level 7.

[Flickerdart]

I'm running on very little sleep, due to being kept up all night by a crying robot baby, so I'm going to need this explained to me. If I can't take Metamagic Song until 9th level, I don't see how this works.

Although, given that I was sort of invited to powergame, I can probably take flaws.

With flaws, it goes like this:
Flaw: Heighten Spell
Flaw: Talfirian Song
Human: Extend Spell
1st: Metamagic Song
3rd: Persist Spell
6th: Extra Music

If you can get your hands on the Planning domain through some kind of cheese or Cleric dip, you get Extend Spell for free.

Quote from someone a while back, I forget who, I just saved it in a text document.

Also, Sublime Chord is the way to go, or a quick dip into Seeker of the Song for their nifty abilities.

You can only enter those at 10th level, sadly.

[Starbuck_II]

With flaws, it goes like this:
Flaw: Heighten Spell
Flaw: Talfirian Song
Human: Extend Spell
1st: Metamagic Song
3rd: Persist Spell
6th: Extra Music

You could be Illumian or another Human subtype for Talfirian, but that bonus feat is nice.

[Flickerdart]

Yep. If that extra skill point didn't mean you could dump INT to the dogs, I'd suggest Silverbrow Human for access to Practical Metamagic and Dragonfire Inspiration.

[Hendel]

With flaws, it goes like this:
Flaw: Heighten Spell
Flaw: Talfirian Song
Human: Extend Spell
1st: Metamagic Song
3rd: Persist Spell
6th: Extra Music

If you can get your hands on the Planning domain through some kind of cheese or Cleric dip, you get Extend Spell for free.

You can only enter those at 10th level, sadly.

Where would I find Talfirian Song?

[Pluto]

Pathfinder Bard is also approved.

Does that mean you have to use it?

[Raistlin1040]

So, if I'm reading this right, at level 7 and with Extra Music, I get one 3rd level and 1 2nd level spell all day long?

[Flickerdart]

Talfirian Song is a general feat in Races of Faerun.

So, if I'm reading this right, at level 7 and with Extra Music, I get one 3rd level and 1 2nd level spell all day long?

Sadly, you'd only have 11 Bardic Music uses and will be able to Persist but a single spell of any level (since Metamagic Song requires you to pay the entire cost of the metamagic). Next level you will have 12 uses of Bardic Music, and will be able to Persist two spells.

[Raistlin1040]

Ah. But if I dip in Cleric for a free Extend Spell, for extra Extra Music later, I get 14 uses, so 2 persisted spells and 2 uses left.

[Flickerdart]

If you dip Cleric you won't have 3rd level spells, but will have 14 Bardic Music uses, yes. I recommend Cloistered Cleric (UA) since you get Knowledge domain for free, which you can swap for Knowledge Devotion. Travel is another good domain because Travel Devotion kicks ass.

[Raistlin1040]

Hm. Well Persisted Glibness is what I'm shooting for, but since I think he might try to kill me for being rather Glib, I probably need the persisted Displacement too. So, looking for cheese extra music. To the internet.

[The Glyphstone]

Another vote for Inspire Courage min/maxing. Because (Powergaming melee + Powergaming bard = Powergaming party^2)

[Vaynor]

Another vote for Inspire Courage min/maxing. Because (Powergaming melee + Powergaming bard = Powergaming party^2)

Precisely, the bardzilla build is all well and good but inspire courage doesn't just help you, it helps your entire party. A lot.

[PId6]

Besides Bardzilla, there's also Inspire Courage optimization, as had been suggested. You can do pretty absurd things to the party damage output with proper optimization there.

Savage Bard 7
Race: Any
Int >= 15, Cha >= 15

Feats:

Flaw: Dragontouched (DM)
Flaw: Dragon Heritage [Battle] (RotD)
1: Dragonfire Inspiration [Sonic] (DM)
3: Song of the Heart (ECS)
6: Words of Creation (BoED)

Spells:

Whirling Blade (SpC)
Inspirational Boost (SpC)
Creaking Cacophony (SpC)

Items:

Masterwork Mandolin [CV]
Badge of Valor (MIC)
Vest of Legends (DMG2) - Once you can afford it

At your level, you're going to have Inspire Courage +5 attack/+3 damage with Song of the Heart, Inspirational Boost, Masterwork Mandolin, and Badge of Valor, which doubles and becomes +10d6 sonic damage thanks to Words of Creation and Dragonfire Inspiration. If you further cast Creaking Cacophony, enemies gain weakness to sonic, so that's 50% more damage, meaning essentially +15d6 sonic damage to each ally's attacks.

Whirling Blade is meant for mixing it up in damage of your own, letting you deal massive damage to swarms of enemies thanks to your own Dragonfire Inspiration.

[Eldariel]

Yep. If that extra skill point didn't mean you could dump INT to the dogs, I'd suggest Silverbrow Human for access to Practical Metamagic and Dragonfire Inspiration.

Well, you want Words of Creation anyways, so you can't dump Int.

[Vaynor]

Besides Bardzilla, there's also Inspire Courage optimization, as had been suggested. You can do pretty absurd things to the party damage output with proper optimization there.

Savage Bard 7
Race: Any
Int >= 15, Cha >= 15

Feats:

Flaw: Dragontouched (DM)

If you go Silverbrow Human you can forgo the Dragontouched feat, which gets you two extra feats essentially.

[Greenish]

this (generally) underpowered class

I thought this thread was about bards?

[Flickerdart]

Well, you want Words of Creation anyways, so you can't dump Int.

For Inspire Courage optimization, yes, but that's really all Words of Creation is good for.

[PId6]

If you go Silverbrow Human you can forgo the Dragontouched feat, which gets you two extra feats essentially.

No, Dragon Heritage requires Sorcerer 1, and Dragontouched is the only way around that. You need Dragon Heritage to change Dragonfire Inspiration's damage from fire (which is easily resisted) to sonic (which is not).

[Vaynor]

No, Dragon Heritage requires Sorcerer 1, and Dragontouched is the only way around that. You need Dragon Heritage to change Dragonfire Inspiration's damage from fire (which is easily resisted) to sonic (which is not).

Oh, my mistake. Never mind.

[Eldariel]

For Inspire Courage optimization, yes, but that's really all Words of Creation is good for.

It has very nice uses with Inspire Greatness too.

[Tinydwarfman]

It has very nice uses with Inspire Greatness too.

Outside of using those extra HD and skillpoints for early entry?

[Eldariel]

Outside of using those extra HD and skillpoints for early entry?

"Extra HD" is a bit too all-encompassing statement to say "outside"; all Insp. Greatness is useful for is definitely based on extra Hit Dice, but they do much more than enable early entry - e.g. Polymorph loves Inspire Greatness, and if you happen to have Practiced Spellcaster, you get nice extra caster levels. +4 with Words of Creation, only +2 otherwise. And Competence-bonus to attacks is quite hard to acquire, and thus quite useful.