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Thread: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
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2010-06-06, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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[3.5] Best playable Dragon?
Fact: Dragons are awesome.
Fact: Dragons have lots of HD so the players don't kill them immediately.
Fact: Dragons have lots of LA because they're so awesome.
Fact: This makes Dragons unplayable.
What age categories of what dragons balance the awesomeness and the LA/RHD? The lowest ECL dragon (White Wyrmling, ECL5) sucks horribly compared to even an LA0 PC race, never mind a 5th level character, but it does get three different movement modes which is cool.
Are there any better playable Dragons?
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2010-06-06, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
Several people on these boards have worked up playable Dragon monster classes, I believe.
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2010-06-06, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
Dragonwrought Kobolds and Spellscales are great LA+0 Dragons. So are Dragonborn, now that I think about it.
But if you want an ACTUAL dragon... a wyrmling gold dragon isn't TOO bad.Now if you don't mind, I am somewhat preoccupied telling the laws of physics to shut up and sit down.
I cast irresistable phantasmal killer as a 4th level spell. No save, just die.
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2010-06-06, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
I don't like resorting to homebrew (I can homebrew up my own dragon class if I need to) unless the system doesn't support anything at all that's similar to what I want. Wyrmling Gold is ECL12 for some stat boosts and not much else.
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2010-06-06, 05:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
Dragonwrought Kobold Dragonfire Adept...
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2010-06-06, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
The problem is that Dragons were never designed as playable characters. The fact that they advance by aging rather than by XP is a bit of a hint in that respect.
So most of the effective ways to play a Dragon tend to involve cheating, somehow. For example, playing a spellcaster and then Wild Shaping or Polymorphing yourself into one.I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and the final book in the series, Risen, is out as of December 2021. For updates, check my blog!
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2010-06-06, 05:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
Working with your DM to maybe remove the LA a Very young Shadow dragon could work, perhaps as scouty type/skill monkey/sneaky person. Breathe weapon bestows a negative level, counts as complete concealment in anything other than full on daylight and all of its mental stats are pretty good. Immunity to energy drain, small size and a +10 NA.
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2010-06-06, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2010-06-06, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
The Abyssal Drake (found in the Draconomicon) is not technically a true dragon—I believe it's actually a blend of wyvern, red dragon, and demon—but it's the closest you'll get to playing a dragon as a huge, terrifying beast. It's ECL 15, so it's not for low levels, but you get impressive stat boosts, Huge size, flight, a bevy of natural attacks, a breath weapon, frightful presence... all the usual dragon stuff, minus spellcasting. It actually makes for a pretty solid melee character.
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2010-06-06, 05:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
Sand Dragon?
ECL 5 for Wyrmling (HD 3)
ECL 8 Very young (HD 6)
Flaywind is untyped damage (sand).
You could just play a Dragonborn (Insert Race here).
Shadow Dragon (abilities are good but LA sucks)
ECL 7 for Wyrmling (HD 4)
ECL 10 Very young (HD 7)
Negative levels (Reflex for 1/2)
Pyroclastic Dragon (abilities are good but LA sucks)
ECL 11 for Wyrmling (HD 7)
ECL 15 Very young (HD 10)
Disintegrating breath or 1/2 fire + 12 Sonic breath.Last edited by Starbuck_II; 2010-06-06 at 05:50 PM.
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2010-06-06, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
The monster progressions in Dragon #332 are pretty decent. Only the Chromatic five exist, but it'd be fairly straightforward to get the Metallics if you so wished (goes off to work out progressions for the Orange and Purple).
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2010-06-06, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
Well copper and brass have the lowest LAs. I've seen the second in play and just 2 lost levels aren't that bad in return for flying, save-or-die breath, and tiny size has it's advantages.
Granted, you'll be playing a skirmish lizard and not a huge fire breathing beast.
Eeerr, wizard and draconic polymorph?
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2010-06-06, 05:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
But you wouldn't really want to play a shadow dragon wyrmling. One of its best abilities it only gains as very young (shadow blend) and as the wyrmlings breath DC is only 13 its likely that even mooks will be saving against it (that said any young dragons breath weapon is likely to be ignored at higher levels as they don't scale but against mook hoards of 1 HD its ncie to force a DC 16 save or die)
He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
— Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil
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2010-06-06, 05:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
Improved monster classes by Oslecamo.
Makes dragons an other monsters playable in high powered campaigns.
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2010-06-06, 05:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
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2010-06-06, 06:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
I believe all dragon breaths are based off of a specific stat and then age category so I think it does go up with level if you can boost CON.
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2010-06-06, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
The Pseudodragon (+2 LA, 2 RHD) isn't too bad, if you're playing a stealth-centric character.
Really, though, if you want to play an actual Dragon, you're well-served to find a Gestalt game - one where the DM lets LA and RHD fill a single side of the progression, just like class levels (which gets rid of most of the disadvantages of a high-LA race).
DC is 10+ 1/2 RHD + Con Modifier.
The damage/area is based on age category.Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2010-06-06 at 06:23 PM.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2010-06-06, 06:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
Dragons of Faerun has Mercury and Steel dragons, which, for wyrmlings, have 3 and 4 RHD, and both have a LA+2, not too bad. Plus Steel dragons have the hilarious property of always smelling like wet metal in their dragon form.
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2010-06-06, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
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2010-06-06, 06:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-06-06, 07:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
Whatever it is, Wyrmling is always] the best bet. First, Dragon HD grows faster than their power (and CR) so you'll get diminishing returns as you have to take Dragon HD as levels (which, of course, can't fit multiple HDs per level), and second, the LA grows for each age category. As such, minimizing the number of these extremely inefficient "dragon levels" you have to take is the best.
Some Wyrmlings are quite playable. If you use the various draconic templates and company (Dragons of Eberron & Draconomicon-stuff), you should be fine. Frankly, the best Dragon you could get though is getting one as Mount/Leadership Cohort/Animal Companion. It's pretty standard for Supermount which gains insane amounts of HD, and it just so happens Dragon HD doesn't suck, so it's pretty useful overall. You can get a Young one this way, with ~50-odd HD.Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-06-06 at 07:33 PM.
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2010-06-06, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
The Ambush Drake racial class isn't terribad... 7 ECL for 7 HD. Their breath weapon is kind of funky but they are dragons.
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2010-06-06, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
Ambush Drakes have LA -, not 0 in Monster Manual 3.
Breath Weapon: 30 ft cone, Slows, 7 rd, DC 17 Will negate.
That link is just CR.
Sadly, they aren't playable.
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2010-06-06, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
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2010-06-06, 08:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
Nope. Check errata, it skips them. Goes right to Arcane ooze.
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This site is adding levels not at level 4:
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Look at Level 4? It has 11 HD, CR 9 and 4 Scout Classes.
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2010-06-06, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
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2010-06-06, 10:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
The metallic dragons were actually published first in Dragon #320. The gold dragon is the most playable: medium size for levels 1-15, and at level 4 they get Alternate Form (Su), which allows them to change into any animal or humanoid form. This would allow them to masquerade as another character, maybe pretending to be a fighter or some other mundane class. Silver dragons also get Alternate Form (Su) at level 8, but start out small for levels 1-13.
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2010-06-07, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
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2010-06-07, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Best playable Dragon?
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2010-06-07, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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