What Would You Build? (3.5)

[afroakuma]

Alright, here's the setup.

New PbP game, and you're looking into whether or not you'd like to play it. You know it's a relatively high-powered game, and the DM might fudge some rules/rolls from time to time.

You get to the character-building rules, which are as follows:

• You've got the experience points of a 6th-level character to use as you like.

• Standard 6th level wealth -1000 gp.

• All 3.5 base classes and prestige classes from 3.5 Wizards material are permitted, although alternate class features need to be run by the DM first. Homebrew is allowed on a case-by-case basis, defaulting to "permitted". No Lightning Warrior. Multiclassing and prestige classes permitted provided you straight-up qualify for them, without using rules loopholes.

• You can have a free LA of up to +4, but no racial HD. For every point of LA you drop, you get an extra 4 points in the point buy. Stay LA +0 and you get a bonus feat.

• 28-point buy (but see above) for ability scores.

• You may have as many traits as you like, but a maximum of two flaws (and DM must clear them, so no picking harmless or trivial flaws).

Given those rules and the breadth of options available, what would you build? What weird races or templates would you crack open, what class combos would you try out etc.?

[gbprime]

With a conditionally free +4 level adjustment, you want to use it to get lots of stats. This screams Pixie to me (-4 str, +8 dex, +6 int, +6 cha, +4 wis), because that also comes with flight, greater invisibility, 15+lvl spell resistance, DR 10/cold iron, and plenty of powerful spell like abilities. Then you work up an INT or CHA caster.

Or perhaps a sneak attacker to take advantage of all that dex and invisibility. Str 10, Dex 26, con 14, int 16, wis 12, cha 16. Make a Swashbuckler 3 / Rogue 3 and use Daring Outlaw and Two Weapon Fighting. Your melee attacks are tiny, but you're hitting on that dex score, which nets each strike bonus damage of 3d6+3.

[Escheton]

A feral(if allowed) ghostwise halfling totem rager
or a phrenic(if allowed) human dragon shaman/crusader

[gallagher]

Water Orc with the half Minotaur template. Actually as a martial class, go ahead and be a huge damage dealer that really only needs to max out jump (and tumble if you can get t) you won't need alot of skill points, so with the extra 12 on your point buy (+8 if yo also grab mineral warrior) you can pump strength and con

Be a slt barbarian for pounce, take 2 levels of fighter for feats, then pump up your martial self with a good PRC

edit: maybe if you can afford a decent wisdom, take a few levels of psychic warrior and build towards puromancer so the 1000 fewer gp doesn't hurt

[arguskos]

Does that free +4 LA cover racial hit dice? If yes, I'd grab a Lumi for my race, and probably roll with a Lumi Sorcadin for giggles.

Maybe use my Magister, that'd be fun, get some practice with that one.

Perhaps petition to play a Blade Lord (see post 8 for details on what every Blade Lord shares) of something REALLY esoteric, and argue that the LA should cover all their "racial" benefits (extensive and quite strong; also never meant for PC usage; don't expect that one to fly).

Petition the DM to let me play a Galadiut.

[Draz74]

Boring answer: I'd probably just stick with LA +0 and take advantage of having fantastic ability scores across the board, and an extra feat. I'd make something that can take advantage of all those good scores, like a Warblade or Factotum or Psi-Gish.

[erikun]

What would I play? I don't care much for "high-powered" games, so I'd probably play a Human Cleric or one of the +0 LA Gnome-races Druid; that's about as overpowered as I really enjoy. I guess that the Anthropomorphic Bat Druid is always a choice, if you wanted to break your game in as many ways possible. That's +6 Wis, 44 point buy, and a bonus feat for free. You're even at the level for Natural Spell.

[gbprime]

Boring answer: I'd probably just stick with LA +0 and take advantage of having fantastic ability scores across the board, and an extra feat. I'd make something that can take advantage of all those good scores, like a Warblade or Factotum or Psi-Gish.

You mean take a 44 point-buy? If you reduced the dex of the Pixie I quoted above to 18, that would be a 48 point buy human. And that doesn't include greater invis, spell resistance, flight, and spell like abilities. LA is always a better deal. But it might be prudent to spend 2 or 3 of them and use the rest for stats.

[arguskos]

You mean take a 44 point-buy? If you reduced the dex of the Pixie I quoted above to 18, that would be a 48 point buy human. And that doesn't include greater invis, spell resistance, flight, and spell like abilities. LA is always a better deal. But it might be prudent to spend 2 or 3 of them and use the rest for stats.

No, it's not. It just can be the better deal. It's not always. Play a Hobgoblin and get back to me.

Note: I personally would LOVE such a game, since such things interest me highly, and I'd love to play something really out of the ordinary.

[Escheton]

Tanky Mc Survive stuff.
Feral, mineral warrior human with (I use this a lot) trollblooded feat.
Commoner 1/survivor5
DR 8/ademantine
DR 5/-
Improved uncanny dodge
Improved evasion.
Regenerate 1
Fast healing 3
1d8 claws, Improved grab, pounce.
Landspeed 40
Darkvision 60
Saves +4 +4 +4
bab 0 though

would trade mineral warrior for stuff that give SR and flight though

[Amphetryon]

I suppose the boring answer of LA+0 Forest Gnome Abjurer (ban Evocation/Enchantment) 3/Master Specialist 5/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Shadowcraft Mage 5 holds no interest?

[Master_Rahl22]

I'm not very familiar with good LA races/templates, but I'd probably spend 1 or 2 on something that can make me Large with boosts to physical stats and possibly Wis, then go Monk 2/Unarmed Swordsage 4, heading into Shadow Sun Ninja. Alternatively, I'd go with Human for the extra feat and uber scores and add Master of Nine into the mix. I've built a character similar to that a few times, but it's fairly MAD as all Monks tend to be, and with Mo9 eating up feats that bonus one for no LA looks nifty.

[Zore]

I'd build plain old Human Binder, using the extra stats and feat to make the most versatile character possible. I may choose Strongheart Halfling instead for the Dex.

[Radar]

With a conditionally free +4 level adjustment, you want to use it to get lots of stats. This screams Pixie to me (-4 str, +8 dex, +6 int, +6 cha, +4 wis), because that also comes with flight, greater invisibility, 15+lvl spell resistance, DR 10/cold iron, and plenty of powerful spell like abilities. Then you work up an INT or CHA caster.

Or perhaps a sneak attacker to take advantage of all that dex and invisibility. Str 10, Dex 26, con 14, int 16, wis 12, cha 16. Make a Swashbuckler 3 / Rogue 3 and use Daring Outlaw and Two Weapon Fighting. Your melee attacks are tiny, but you're hitting on that dex score, which nets each strike bonus damage of 3d6+3.

For meele Pixie build i would go with a Hellfire Glaivelock type of a character. Why bother with a Sneak Attack, that someone can be immune to, when you can make touch attacks for much more damage - especially if you top the Hellfire Warlock with Legacy Champion (that was the PrC AFAIK), to get even more Hellfire Blast.
That and at-will powers are always fun and easy to keep track of.

IMO Pixie is one of the best things you can get for a +4 LA.

[Prodan]

Given those rules and the breadth of options available, what would you build? What weird races or templates would you crack open, what class combos would you try out etc.?

Cancer Mage.

[Eloel]

Sylph. With 4 LA killed, you basically get +3 sorc levels, on Outsider chassis. Win-Win.

Edit: That is, assuming you said 'no RHD' as in 'no killing RHD in free LA'. I can still take them as class levels, right?

[Greenish]

Half-Minotaur Human Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 3/Prestige Paladin of Tyranny 3/Bone Knight 10.

Half-minotaur is cheese, but when you're giving up a feat and a couple of points for stats, it'll be slightly mitigated.

Prestige Paladin and Paladin of Tyranny are separate variants, so whether you can combo them is up to the DM.

[afroakuma]

Note: I personally would LOVE such a game, since such things interest me highly, and I'd love to play something really out of the ordinary.

You know it actually exists, right? It's recruiting right now.

ozgun92: Original intent is "no racial HD whatsoever," to account for some of the potentially silly possibilities. Not all, obviously, but some.

[arguskos]

You know it actually exists, right? It's recruiting right now.

ozgun92: Original intent is "no racial HD whatsoever," to account for some of the potentially silly possibilities. Not all, obviously, but some.

WAITWUT *goes to look*

...
...
...
...

Sooooooo, Galadiut?

[afroakuma]

Sooooooo, Galadiut?

Sure, of courswait a minute.

[arguskos]

Sure, of courswait a minute.

Didn't expect that one to fly, but I lold anyways. Sad about the Lord though. I really wanted to try that one.

[Keld Denar]

/waves at AA. Long time no see!

I'd probably go with a sneaky Human Grave Touched Ghoul, possibly once Evolved for the fast healing. Then stack on 3 levels of Pally of Tyranny and 3 levels of Hexblade with the desire to take the 4th for Dark Companion.

That would give me 32 PB, assuming once evolved.

Mmmmmm, taste the debuffage!

[afroakuma]

Hey Keld! Yeah, it's been a while, hasn't it?

[Zovc]

I'll just put my two cents in saying that if you have any LA, you probably should have +4. In other words, all or nothing. Many templates/races can give you more than 4 points to buy abilities with and have features. Unless you need a fourth/fifth feat (that is, in addition to your base feat and the two feats you get from flaws [and the one you get from being a human-esque race]), just use all +4 free LA.

I'm not too familiar with templates, but I might get back to you. :P

[Saint GoH]

Depends... Is Monster of Legend allowed?

Likely I'm guessing no, so Spellwarped Lolth-Touched Human that pounces with lethal intent. Making full use of leap attack, combat brute, and a few other feats that give him an insane + to charges, double STR on 2-handers, and the ability to sacrifice an attack with the BAB of that attack as a bonus to damage (stacks with power attack). Go me.

[Il_Vec]

• Homebrew is allowed on a case-by-case basis, defaulting to "permitted". [

Warmarked GOGOGO!

[Zovc]

Mineral Warrior (+1), if you're not going to be a spellcaster. [Underdark]

Spellwarped (+3) could be cool, if you're trying to be a sort of gish. [Monster Manual 3]

Lolth-Touched (+1) gets you +6 strength and +6 constitution, this is what I was talking about when I mentioned templates that get you more than +4 to an ability score. (You do have to be chaotic evil, though.) [Monster Manual 4]

Saint (+2) can probably be abused in some way or another. [Book of Exalted Deeds]

[The Antigamer]

Seeing as how I want to be in this game, I'll post my current idea here.

Woodling Anthromorphic bat druid, with the planar druid substitution levels. I was thinking one day he stumbled through a portal to a plane of nature, and was transformed into a woodling, and eventually found a way out of that plane to Sigil. Thoughts? Is woodling a good idea? If so, should I grab one more LA or stick with +3 LA and use the skill points? Edit: Can I somehow become an ironwood woodling?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Melee: I'd use a Variant Half-Fiend for that +4 LA, probably Half-Goristro (FC1). That would net the following gains:

Spoiler

Show

Creating A Half-Fiend

"Half-fiend" is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature with an Intelligence score of 4 or more and nongood alignment (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

A half-fiend uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Size and Type
The creature’s type changes to outsider. Do not recalculate Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or saves. Size is unchanged If the base creature is size Large or smaller, then increase the base creature's size by one category. The relevant changes to the base creature's statistics can be found on page 291 of the Monster Manual. Half-fiends are normally native outsiders.

Speed
A half-fiend has bat wings. Unless the base creature has a better fly speed, the creature can fly at the base creature’s base land speed (average maneuverability).
No changes to speed.

Armor Class
Natural armor improves by +1 +5 (this stacks with any natural armor bonus the base creature has).

Attack
A half-fiend has two claw attacks and a bite attack, and the claws are the primary natural weapon two slam attacks. If the base creature can use weapons, the half-fiend retains this ability. A half-fiend fighting without weapons uses a claw slam when making an attack action. When it has a weapon, it usually uses the weapon instead.

Full Attack
A half-fiend fighting without weapons uses both claws and its bite slams when making a full attack. If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack and its bite as a natural secondary attack. If it has a hand free, it uses a claw slam as an additional natural secondary attack.

Damage
Half-fiends have bite and claw slam attacks. If the base creature does not have these attack forms, use the damage values in the table. Otherwise, use the values in the table or the base creature’s damage values, whichever are greater.
Taking the Goristro's improved natural attack feat into consideration, its slams deal the same damage as what the table gives for a bite from a half-fiend of the same size. Use the bite row for a half-goristro's slam damage. Also consider adding the goristro's Powerful Slam ability, due to the loss of a bite attack and also as a more suitable replacement for other half-fiend special attacks.

Special Attacks
A half-fiend retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains the following special attack.

Smite Good (Su)
Once per day the creature can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD (maximum of +20) against a good foe.
Powerful Slam (Ex) A half-goristro’s slam attacks are treated as if they were two-handed weapons for purposes of applying modifiers to damage with Power Attack and from its Strength bonus.

Spell-Like Abilities
A half-fiend with an Intelligence or Wisdom score of 8 or higher has spell-like abilities depending on its Hit Dice, as indicated on the table. The abilities are cumulative. Unless otherwise noted, an ability is usable once per day. Caster level equals the creature’s HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based.
Replace Darkness with See Invisibility.

Special Qualities
A half-fiend has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities.

* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to poison.
* Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, and fire 10.
* Damage reduction: 5/magic 5/Cold Iron or Good (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic 10/Cold Iron or Good (if HD 12 or more).
* A half-fiend’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
* Spell resistance equal to creature’s HD + 10 (maximum 35).

Abilities
Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +4, Dex +4, Con +2, Int +4, Cha +2 Str +8, Con +8.

Skills
A half-fiend gains skill points as an outsider and has skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier) × (HD + 3). Do not include Hit Dice from class levels in this calculation—the half-fiend gains outsider skill points only for its racial Hit Dice, and gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. Treat skills from the base creature’s list as class skills, and other skills as cross-class. Diplomacy, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Sense Motive, and Spot become class skills for a half-goristro's racial hit dice, if any.

Challenge Rating
HD 4 or less, as base creature +1; HD 5 to 10, as base creature +2; HD 11 or more, as base creature +3. If the base creature increases in size, increase the CR of the final creature by 1.

Alignment
Always evil (any).

Level Adjustment
+4.

I'd probably put that on a Water Orc, and go Warblade 1/ Dungeoncrasher Fighter 2/ Warblade 3+, and be sure to get Knockback. With 28 point buy and the size increase to large you could have Str 34, Dex 12, Con 28, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8, with a +7 natural armor bonus. Hopefully the DM is willing to allow Outsiders to get (Improved) Rapidstrike, and you can use Xing Mongoose with your two-handed Slams.



Caster: Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold, Spellhoarding, Loredrake, Shadow Creature, Half-Fey. Go Battle Sorcerer 4 using the Stalwart Sorcerer variant, and then Swiftblade. Stop at Swiftblade 9 and get five levels of Abjurant Champion, then whatever else you feel like taking. Be sure to use the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (GDRoP), I'd probably get Nerveskitter as your 3/day spell-like ability. Starting out Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 4/ Swiftblade 2 you'd have 5th level spellcasting, which gets +3 for Loredrake and the GDRoP, for 8th level spellcasting at 6th level. Spellhoarding (Dragon 313) retroactively changes any Sorcerer spellcasting ability you have into Wizard spellcasting of equal level, along with a whole bunch of other benefits for no level adjustment. Shadow Creature and Half-Fey are just an amazing way to spend that +4 LA.
*Note that it requires the absolute cheesiest TO methods for one character to be both Dragonwrought and have a Dragonspawn template, and even then it is literally only possible in TO as the mechanics involved throw RP all the way under the bus.