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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Temotei's Avatar

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    Default Luck Feats [3.5]

    I generally read that luck feats are underpowered. Are there any of them that notably aren't?

    Why are they underpowered? What are some fixes that could help them be better?

    One thing that bothers me about them is that the ones that stick out as worth a feat require some crappy feats to get, which turns those feats into worthless crap because you've just spent multiple feat slots on worthless crap to get a moderate bonus.

    So...wisdom. Go on.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2010-06-08 at 12:45 AM.
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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    Biggest drawback is that most of them are only a few times per day. You have to stack on a few of them to get a luck pool big enough to be able to really swing it. There are a few ways to optimize it, but in general, its not worth the effort.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    It works if you take enough of the things to get a decent pool, but to really take advantage of the mechanic you'd need to spend basically all your feats on them, and then you're a one trick pony.

    It's a pretty versatile trick, sure, but there are far better ways to optimize your odds of winning a roll than simply "I roll twice and hope for the best." Even the ones that automatically turn 1s into 20s just increase the odds of a 20 from 5% to 10%, along with eliminating automatic failures. Decent bonus, but not worth two feat prereqs.

    Fortune's Friend can be fun, though. I played one named Gladstone. Spot the reference and win one free internet.

    Besides, there's a psychological aspect. Deep down, no D&D player believes that their rolls are really random. You just didn't pre-roll enough of the ones out of your dice.
    Last edited by Starscream; 2010-06-08 at 01:40 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Starscream View Post
    You just didn't pre-roll enough of the ones out of your dice.
    Or punish your dice sufficiently hard for betraying you in your finest hour. Those suckers make a very satisfying click when thrown against the wall with sufficent force.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Temotei's Avatar

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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    Or punish your dice sufficiently hard for betraying you in your finest hour. Those suckers make a very satisfying click when thrown against the wall with sufficent force.
    Spoons make that sound too!
    Base Class Contest XXXXVII - Time is on Our Side (Yes it is)
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    Homebrew
    Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Thurbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    I think the luck feats are pretty nice, but as noted, you need quite a few to make them worthwhile. If you have a build with quite a lot of feats, they are OK, especially if you go into the Fortune's Friend PrC...but truth be told, there are quite a number of feat chains probably better to invest in, depending on your build.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    I like the Goliath's Auspicous Markings line as an alternative. You have to pay one feat to get in and they don't use a pool, but each feat gives you three uses of it's ability (except the initiative one, which is always on). And they're better than luck rerolls because they don't use any type of action and you can keep the first roll if it was better. I play spellcasters and that's still enough to make me want to eat the LA and racial features I won't use.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    I play spellcasters and that's still enough to make me want to eat the LA and racial features I won't use.
    A Goliath arcanist gets some neat forms with Alter Self...

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Starscream View Post
    Fortune's Friend can be fun, though. I played one named Gladstone. Spot the reference and win one free internet.
    I haven't won any free internets in a long time! I'm guessing he looked something like this?
    "One need not hope in order to undertake, nor succeed in order to persevere."

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    Good Karma is actually quite an interesting one if you're willing to devote the feats to grabbing some extra luck rolls for it. I've been thinking of making a defensive cleric build with it, since you can pump your AC fairly high with very few feats and a few spells and it might be more interesting than just the pure zilla build.

    I like the idea of luck feats a lot, if nothing else.
    "We speak for the dead. We are all they have when the wicked steal their voice. But we do not owe them our lives."

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    I have played in games with opponents like a dozen spellstitched mummies (fight starts with 12 will saves to avoid paralysis) or 8 medusas riding 8 basilisks (fight starts with 16 fort saves to avoid petrify). In that kind of gaming environment, you really need save rerolls (+ good base saves, you have to fail only on a 1 or be really lucky), or something that lets you succeed in saves on a 1. There are other ways to get save rerolls (luck domain, luckstone, some items in MIC, other feats, etc) but the luck feats aren't awful under those conditions.

    Most DMs, I have heard, don't run many encounters like that, so YMMV.

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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    The most useful are Lucky Start (reroll Initiative), Survivor's Luck (reroll any Save), Magical Fortune (reroll spell damage or caster level check), Make Your Own Luck (reroll any Skill check), and Psychic Luck (reroll psionic power damage or manifester check). But the limited Luck pool means that they're only worth taking if your DM has 1 or 2 encounters per game day.

    I have a Luck based homebrew PrC that I wrote up in response to a similar thread months ago somewhere....

    Ah, here it is.

    The Haply Warrior
    Spoiler
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    3/4 BAB, All Skills as Class Skills, 6 Skill Points per level, d6 hit die, Strong Ref and Will Saves.

    Level 1:

    Better Lucky then Good (Ex): You gain a pool of Luck points equal to your Haply Warrior class level. As an Immediate Action you may expend one Luck point to re-roll any one roll, such as a Skill check, opposed check, attack roll, damage roll, caster level check, etc. (But as always, you may not make Immediate Actions while you are Flat Footed). If a roll includes multiple dice (such as a damage roll), you may only reroll one die from that dice pool, though you may choose which die to reroll. Your pool of Luck points are replenished after 10 minutes of not making any rolls.

    Level 2:

    Lucky Miss (Ex): You gain a continuous Miss Chance equal to your 5% times your Fortune's Friend level (max 25% at 5th level). This Miss Chance overlaps with the Miss Chance from any other source (such as a Cloak of Displacement, Blur, etc). In addition, as an Immediate Action you may expend a Luck point to double the Miss Chance provided by Lucky Miss until the start of your next turn.

    It's a Trap! (Ex): You add your Haply Warrior class level as a Luck bonus to your AC and Saving Throws during any Surprise Round and against any trap that you encounter. The benefits of this ability stacks with the benefits of Trapsense provided by any other class.

    Level 3:

    I Like My Odds (Ex): Whenever you initiate the use of an magic or psionic item that requires a random effect, such as a Deck of Many Things or a Bag of Tricks, as an Immediate Action you may expend a Luck point to roll one additional time to determine the effects of the item. You may choose the results of either or both rolls, at your option. In addition, whenever you play a game of chance (cards, dice, roulette, drawing straws, etc) as an Immediate Action you may expend a Luck point to reroll, redraw, or redo any roll, card, or turn, and choose either result. Your DM may expand this ability to include similar situations involving a degree of luck, such as guessing games, answering riddles, etc.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex): You gain the Uncanny Dodge ability. If you already have Uncanny Dodge, you instead gain Improved Uncanny Dodge and your Haply Warrior level stack to determine the minimum Rogue level needed to Flank you.

    Level 4:

    Damn Your Fool's Luck (Ex): As an Immediate Action you may expend one Luck point to force an opponent to reroll any one roll that targets you. This may include an attack roll, such as a Skill check, opposed check, attack roll, damage roll, caster level check, etc. If a roll includes multiple dice (such as a damage roll) you may only reroll one die from that dice pool, though you may choose which die to reroll.

    Level 5:

    Fated Destiny (Ex): If you are ever reduced to below -9 hit points or are otherwise killed by any effect (such as a failed Saving Throw that kills you without dealing damage), you may expend all of your remaining Luck Points to instead be reduced to exactly -9 hit points and be Stabilized. You must have at least one Luck Point available in order to use this ability. Using this ability is a Free Action, and may be done during anyone's turn, even if you are Flat Footed. Enemies assume that you are dead unless they choose to examine your body and make a successful Sense Motive check (DC = 15 + 1/2 your character level + your Charisma modifier) to determine otherwise. The DM may adjust this Save DC based on the circumstances of your death. For example, if you are not turned to dust by a Disintegrate spell, the opponent who cast the spell is likely to recognize this (though other opponents may not, depending on their knowledge of Spellcraft). Conversely, if you fall down the Spiky Pit of Despair but survive the impact due to this ability, opponents are more far more likely to conclude that you are dead unless they climb down and closely look at your body.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    Psssst. You copypasta'd Lucky Miss poorly, it still mentions Fortune's Friend levels...I won't tell anyone if you don't!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceaon View Post
    I haven't won any free internets in a long time! I'm guessing he looked something like this?
    Correct. Here's your internet:


    Although my DM nixed the idea of applying the Anthropomorphic template to a goose, so I made him human.

    At least I got to make him dress like that. Then I get a lecture about why, contrary to Therkla's advice, pants shouldn't be forsaken whenever possible.
    Last edited by Starscream; 2010-06-08 at 10:37 AM.
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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    You could just make luck rerolls per encounter instead of per day. My gut says this might make them too powerful, but feat slots are expensive.

  16. - Top - End - #16
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    You could just make luck rerolls per encounter instead of per day. My gut says this might make them too powerful, but feat slots are expensive.
    If you're not using too many free feat methods like flaws and elf with dark chaos shuffle I doubt that would be OP.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
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    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

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    Wonton's Avatar

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    Default Re: Luck Feats [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    The most useful are Lucky Start (reroll Initiative), Survivor's Luck (reroll any Save), Magical Fortune (reroll spell damage or caster level check), Make Your Own Luck (reroll any Skill check), and Psychic Luck (reroll psionic power damage or manifester check). But the limited Luck pool means that they're only worth taking if your DM has 1 or 2 encounters per game day.

    I have a Luck based homebrew PrC that I wrote up in response to a similar thread months ago somewhere....

    Ah, here it is.

    The Haply Warrior
    Spoiler
    Show

    3/4 BAB, All Skills as Class Skills, 6 Skill Points per level, d6 hit die, Strong Ref and Will Saves.

    Level 1:

    Better Lucky then Good (Ex): You gain a pool of Luck points equal to your Haply Warrior class level. As an Immediate Action you may expend one Luck point to re-roll any one roll, such as a Skill check, opposed check, attack roll, damage roll, caster level check, etc. (But as always, you may not make Immediate Actions while you are Flat Footed). If a roll includes multiple dice (such as a damage roll), you may only reroll one die from that dice pool, though you may choose which die to reroll. Your pool of Luck points are replenished after 10 minutes of not making any rolls.

    Level 2:

    Lucky Miss (Ex): You gain a continuous Miss Chance equal to your 5% times your Fortune's Friend level (max 25% at 5th level). This Miss Chance overlaps with the Miss Chance from any other source (such as a Cloak of Displacement, Blur, etc). In addition, as an Immediate Action you may expend a Luck point to double the Miss Chance provided by Lucky Miss until the start of your next turn.

    It's a Trap! (Ex): You add your Haply Warrior class level as a Luck bonus to your AC and Saving Throws during any Surprise Round and against any trap that you encounter. The benefits of this ability stacks with the benefits of Trapsense provided by any other class.

    Level 3:

    I Like My Odds (Ex): Whenever you initiate the use of an magic or psionic item that requires a random effect, such as a Deck of Many Things or a Bag of Tricks, as an Immediate Action you may expend a Luck point to roll one additional time to determine the effects of the item. You may choose the results of either or both rolls, at your option. In addition, whenever you play a game of chance (cards, dice, roulette, drawing straws, etc) as an Immediate Action you may expend a Luck point to reroll, redraw, or redo any roll, card, or turn, and choose either result. Your DM may expand this ability to include similar situations involving a degree of luck, such as guessing games, answering riddles, etc.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex): You gain the Uncanny Dodge ability. If you already have Uncanny Dodge, you instead gain Improved Uncanny Dodge and your Haply Warrior level stack to determine the minimum Rogue level needed to Flank you.

    Level 4:

    Damn Your Fool's Luck (Ex): As an Immediate Action you may expend one Luck point to force an opponent to reroll any one roll that targets you. This may include an attack roll, such as a Skill check, opposed check, attack roll, damage roll, caster level check, etc. If a roll includes multiple dice (such as a damage roll) you may only reroll one die from that dice pool, though you may choose which die to reroll.

    Level 5:

    Fated Destiny (Ex): If you are ever reduced to below -9 hit points or are otherwise killed by any effect (such as a failed Saving Throw that kills you without dealing damage), you may expend all of your remaining Luck Points to instead be reduced to exactly -9 hit points and be Stabilized. You must have at least one Luck Point available in order to use this ability. Using this ability is a Free Action, and may be done during anyone's turn, even if you are Flat Footed. Enemies assume that you are dead unless they choose to examine your body and make a successful Sense Motive check (DC = 15 + 1/2 your character level + your Charisma modifier) to determine otherwise. The DM may adjust this Save DC based on the circumstances of your death. For example, if you are not turned to dust by a Disintegrate spell, the opponent who cast the spell is likely to recognize this (though other opponents may not, depending on their knowledge of Spellcraft). Conversely, if you fall down the Spiky Pit of Despair but survive the impact due to this ability, opponents are more far more likely to conclude that you are dead unless they climb down and closely look at your body.
    That's really cool, actually. It's what all those luck classes SHOULD have been like (though I'm still partial to the Fatespinner from CArc - just don't take level 5).
    Rules that supersede Rule 0:

    Rule -1: You're all there to have fun. The GM and the players should never do anything that would limit people's fun, for any in-game or real-life reason.

    Rule -0.5 (corollary): That means that if someone's fun is getting in the way of other people's fun, that person needs to change how they're playing.

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