3.5 Monkey Build pls.

[TripperdeCleric]

Looking for a 5 level skillmonkey/damage dealer build.


Just need a class array and the where they come from.


Thank you in advance.



*edit*

Oh and if you have a setup for stats best to worst that would also be helfpul...thank you again.

[lsfreak]

For simplicity, Human Rogue 5.
Take Craven (Champions of Ruin), TWF, Weapon Finesse.
Look to take a level in Swordsage later (Tome of Battle, at 9th level, likely); grab Assassin's Stance and then the feat Shadow Blade. Those up your damage noticeably and give you more stuff that you can do.
Darkstalker (feat, Lords of Madness) and a one/two level dip in Shadowdancer can be very good for the sneakiness. Two levels gets you Improved Uncanny Dodge and Evasion, while still letting you get the ACF's Spell Reflection (PHB2) and the one from Dragonomicon that boosts your saves versus fear.
For upping skills, a one-level dip in Exemplar (Complete Adventurer) can be good. Taking 10 in combat on a skill can be good; combined with the right stuff it means you can full attack while Hiding/Moving Silenty and still have a good chance of not being seen.

Someone probably ninja'd me with factotum, but I still like rogues myself.

[Optimystik]

How high are you going? Rogue has the edge in damage early on, but Factotums outstrip them there - and everywhere else - as the game progresses.

[Hendel]

I was going to recommend a grappling Dire Ape or Girallon until I actually read the post.

[TripperdeCleric]

we are hoping to play to 20 if not higher.

I need something that is useful and gets it done.

[Flickerdart]

A Dragonfire Inspiration Bard can get both the skills and the damage, although it will be your allies doing it - with fistfuls of d6es on every attack.

[TripperdeCleric]

Where can I find this..and does it have trapsense or something similar..im feeling that my dm is gonna be a jerk when it comes ot this.

[Keld Denar]

You could also get an arcane twist in there. Rogue1/Wizard4 is a great start to get you into Unseen Seer (Complete Mage) for 10 levels, at which point you should automatically qualify for 5 levels of Arcane Trickster (DMG). An alternative to rogue would be a level of Spellthief(Complete Adventurer). This would cost you 8 skill points at creation, but opens up the fun that is Master Spellthief (Complete Scoundrel).

Probably best run on a Human chassis, with the Able Learner feat (Races of Destiny) to keep up with the "skill" role. Other relevant feats would be Craven(Champions of Ruin), Darkstalker(Lords of Madness), Split Ray(Complete Arcane), and Extend Spell + Persist Spell(Complete Arcane). For your Unseen Seer bonus spells, pick up Hunter's Eye (Spell Compendium), Divine Insight(Complete Divine), and possibly Grave Strike (Complete Divine) if you are encountering a lot of undead, or something else tasty.

Basically, concept is to hide and/or go invisible, then sneak attack people with ranged touch attacks from within 30' away. Has the added bonus of being a 19th level Wizard by level 20, with all the tricks and shananananananananiganary that comes into play there.

[Greenish]

Where can I find this..and does it have trapsense or something similar..im feeling that my dm is gonna be a jerk when it comes ot this.

Dragonfire Inspiration is in Dragon Magic, bards don't get trapfinding out of the box, and you shouldn't play with jerks (unless you're good friends).

[TripperdeCleric]

good friends..but he knows I hate traps...



Ok about the unseen thing above..that looks pretty rockin from what you said...ill have to look in to it.



ill also look at that bard thing....I might need be solo though is what im thinking.

[PId6]

You could also get an arcane twist in there. Rogue1/Wizard4 is a great start to get you into Unseen Seer (Complete Mage) for 10 levels, at which point you should automatically qualify for 5 levels of Arcane Trickster (DMG).

Nitpick: Arcane Trickster 5 doesn't offer you much. Wizard 5 is usually much better for that last level (Bonus Feat, or better yet Spontaneous Divination which combines very well with Unseen Seer).

[Flickerdart]

The Bardsong applies to yourself, too, and lasts 5 rounds after you stop playing (or 10 rounds if you have a Harmonizing weapon or the Lingering Song feat). You'll be looking at something like +20d6 damage to your attacks at 20th level.

Edit: Arcane Trickster 5 gets you +3d6 SA, which is better than some measly feat, and a fair bunch of skill points.

[lsfreak]

Edit: Arcane Trickster 5 gets you +3d6 SA, which is better than some measly feat, and a fair bunch of skill points.

And Arcane Trickster + Craven gets you 3d6+lvl

[Flickerdart]

Well he's already getting SA from Unseen Seer, so he can have Craven anyway.

[PId6]

Edit: Arcane Trickster 5 gets you +3d6 SA, which is better than some measly feat, and a fair bunch of skill points.

Arcane Trickster 4 gets you +2d6 Sneak Attack. Arcane Trickster 5 gives you Ranged Legerdemain 2/day (blech) (according to SRD, anyway). You lose 2 skill points, that's it.

[TripperdeCleric]

so unseen seer is the best option.


cuz after reading it it doesnt seem all that great..unless im missing something.


I can see where divination can help...but i seem to be missing the dmg output and the skill monkey part.

[Flickerdart]

Oh...for some reason I thought the SA progression was as Rogue, or Assassin, or any other SA class. Stupid WotC.

[PId6]

so unseen seer is the best option.


cuz after reading it it doesnt seem all that great..unless im missing something.

It's fantastic, actually. Great skill point progression, full casting, decent Sneak Attack progression (4/10), and decent class features. Divination Spell Power is easily negated via Practiced Spellcaster, so it's all positive from there. Advanced Learning grabs you some fantastic spells from the Spell Compendium (Hunter's Eye, Grave Strike).

[TripperdeCleric]

ok it makes more sense then.


so whats the verdict take the arcane trickster dip or no?

[Curmudgeon]

How high are you going? Rogue has the edge in damage early on, but Factotums outstrip them there - and everywhere else - as the game progresses.

Actually you've got that backwards. A Rogue of at least middling level will easily out-damage the Factotum because Factotum's Cunning Strike only gives 1d6, and there's no exception to the standard stacking rule to allow you to add a bonus to damage from that same source more than once. Add Skill Mastery, Savvy Rogue, and Knowledge Devotion and the Rogue just leaves the Factotum in the dust.

However, at low levels, before the Rogue gets significant numbers of sneak dice or qualifies for Skill Mastery, the Factotum has an edge due to Cunning Insight.

[Optimystik]

Since you're interested in going the caster/SA route, have you considered Spellwarp Sniper (CSco)?

Oh...for some reason I thought the SA progression was as Rogue, or Assassin, or any other SA class. Stupid WotC.

There are plenty of SA classes without the rogue progression - Spellthief, Psychic Rogue, Lurk...

Rogue just leaves the Factotum in the dust.

Not if he uses Iaijutsu Focus.

[Keld Denar]

Lets take a snapshot at level 10.

You have 1d6 SA from the rogue level, and 2d6 from Unseen Seer. Thats 3d6 base SA.

Now, your CL with Divinations is 12, due to USS's class features. 12/3 is 4. Thus, casting Hunter's Eye gives you an extra 4d6 SA, totaling 7d6, 2 dice ahead with what a level 10 rogue would have.

Now, from under the cover of Greater Invisibility, you cast Extended Hunter's Eye and say...a Lesser Orb of Acid.

5d8 + 7d6 damage is average 47 damage with just a touch attack, no save.

Next round, Hunter's Eye is still active, so you fire off another Orb.

Another ~47 damage, no save.

But, as a 9th level wizard, you have some 5th level slots, so you fire off a Quickened Lesser Orb of Acid for another ~47 damage. Thats nearly 150 points of damage in 2 rounds, all from the safety of Greater Invis.

Now, its not PERFECT. Things can True See you, or may be immune to Sneak Attack, or you just plain old might run out of attack spells. But...you are a 9th level wizard, and you can do a lot with that. Things like Evards Black Tenticles are BEASTLY for controlling non-flying enemies. Everyone in the party LOVES a timely Haste spell. Etc etc etc.

So yea...lots of goodies.

[TripperdeCleric]

Ill def try it this run.

It seems like a solid idea.


Any suggestions for weapon use....or anyting along those lines?


Im playing a strange race that the dm is allowing..


but besides that point..would it be better to take human and be level 10 or keep my -5 levels for the race?

[PId6]

Don't forget to take Extend Spell and Persistent Spell when you can. Grave Strike/Golem Strike/Hunter's Eye are good even if you cast them, but they're beastly if you Persist them.

For weapons, just use a bow. At lower levels, you should focus more on touch attack spells (Lesser Orb of Acid), but at higher levels you can do more damage via iterative attacks so a regular bow can do more damage.

Human, oh god human. And take Able Learner.

[TripperdeCleric]

So I can start as what he stated above with a human?


at level 10?

[Keld Denar]

That depends on what ECL your DM is starting at. In theory, all PCs should start at the same ECL. Your ECL is the sum of ALL of your +LA, ALL of your Racial HD, and ALL of your character levels.

So, if you are a +5 LA race, you'd start as a level 5 character to be ECL10. If you started as a +5 LA race with 4 racial HD, you'd only be a 1st level character.

Make sense?

Humans have NO LA or Racial HD, so using one would allow you to have the most character levels, which is prefered.

[TripperdeCleric]

Imma go with the Unseen.




Any tips or suggestions or cool tricks?

[Keld Denar]

At early levels, taking the Acidic Splatter feat from Complete Mage gives you a 2d6 at will ranged touch attack (albeit with a 10' range), as long as you keep a 2nd + spell with the [Acid] subtype memorized. Melf's Acid Arrow is a 2nd level one that works. Orb of Acid(Complete Arcane or SpC) is 4th, and Acid Cloud is 6th. There are probably a few others I'm forgetting...

[TripperdeCleric]

Ok, So my goal is to stay back and deal damage and just be a strategist? Or am I a main damage dealer via SA. If so I SA with a bow correct? On the final note that im looking to fill in....hmmm... Im pretty much SA then casting for the damage loop as stated above.

[Optimystik]

I strongly suggest fitting in 5 levels of Spellwarp Sniper. The capstone lets you SA from 60 feet away with ray spells, which already do plenty of damage on their own - you'll thus have many more options in battle.

It also has the same SA progression as US (i.e. 2/5 or 4/10) so you don't lose any SA.

Oh, and 5/5 casting.