Binder Help

[Private-Prinny]

The Binder class (ToM) is one of the more interesting things that I've read, and I want to know more about it. I found this handbook, but it's a bit daunting. Can the playground give me a few tips for building a better Binder?

[Optimystik]

As the handbook says, you basically have to pick what it is you want to do, and then pick the vestiges that allow you to do that thing well. Party face? Tank? Ranged damage? Melee damage? Scout? Caster?

Once you have a role (or set thereof) that you prefer, pick PrCs and feats that lend themselves to that role. For instance, to tank and/or do melee damage, you will probably want full BAB, which means you will probably want KotSS.

[DragoonWraith]

First, the Binder does an excellent job of being exactly what you need it to be: You can be Binder 0 with Bind Vestige, Binder 1 with Naberius or similar, or Binder 20 (or, more often, Binder 15/Knight of the Seal 5) for the whole enchilada. Improved Binding is an excellent feat until 17th, when it becomes useless, so if you aren't going to be there for a long time - take it.

Binders are versatility incarnate. Your character changes more from day to day than any other aside from the Wizard, I'd say, and you are much more likely to change massively from day to day than the average Wizard. You need to decide if you want to focus on certain abilities - and taking feats that improve them - or if you want to be able to do something with any vestige combination that the situation calls for. That will affect a lot of your build.

[Private-Prinny]

I have a nasty habit of wanting to play more characters than I really should, so a Binder with more of a caster bend that can change his entire shtick day to day seems like the perfect match for me.

[Optimystik]

I have a nasty habit of wanting to play more characters than I really should, so a Binder with more of a caster bend that can change his entire shtick day to day seems like the perfect match for me.

Anima Mage is for you then.

If your DM allows the variant, go with Anima Cleric/Tenebrous Apostate instead, to get 9th-level divine spells and high-level vestiges. (The adaptation section is on page 53.)

[DragoonWraith]

Anima Mages are very good. Wizard 3/Binder 1 with Improved Binding qualifies you without cheese; heavy cheese can get you to Wizard 1/Binder 1 (using Precocious Apprentice), while ludicrous cheese can get you into Anima Mage after just Wizard 1 (and yes, a Wizard 1/Anima Mage 1 has the spellcasting of a 2nd level Wizard and a 1st level Binder).

[Optimystik]

Cloistered Cleric 3/Binder 1 (Imp. Binding)/Anima Mage 10/Tenebrous Apostate 5 gets you 9th-level divine spells and 8th-level vestiges.

(Casting as Cleric 17, binding as Binder 15 +2, thanks to Improved Binding).

[Private-Prinny]

Anima Mage seems amazing. It looks almost too good. I'm just wondering if I can slip the marking fluff by my DM so I don't take any sort of role-playing penalty for not having 2 levels in Binder.

Just in case I can't, what would you suggest for a non-Anima Mage Binder?

[Optimystik]

Anima Mage seems amazing. It looks almost too good. I'm just wondering if I can slip the marking fluff by my DM so I don't take any sort of role-playing penalty for not having 2 levels in Binder.

You can just avoid vestiges that are too outlandish, or use magic (e.g. Disguise Self) to cover up.

Why would you avoid it anyway? That's half the fun.

Just in case I can't, what would you suggest for a non-Anima Mage Binder?

Pure Binder is fine, or even Binder/KotSS.

If your game hits epic, take a look at Epic Binders.

[Private-Prinny]

You can just avoid vestiges that are too outlandish, or use magic (e.g. Disguise Self) to cover up.

Why would you avoid it anyway? That's half the fun.



Pure Binder is fine, or even Binder/KotSS.

If your game hits epic, take a look at Epic Binders.

I want to avoid it so I can show my marks at dramatically appropriate moments.

Epic Binder, you say? *reads through article* Hmm... seems good, some nice epic feats, and HOLY **** YOU CAN BIND CTHULHU!

[gbprime]

Binder is one of those rare classes that makes you consider NOT taking a PrC. They're decent in melee, versatile with customizable spell like abilities, and at higher levels can pack multiple powerful breath weapons, so you could use them 2 rounds out of 5.

If you know what motif you want and what vestiges you'll most often take, you can plan a feat chain around that. Improved Binding is the only feat you universally want, and you can retrain it to some other feat once you hit higher teen levels. Skilled Pact Making is also useful, but not necessary, as a poor pact just gives you limitations which can be roleplayed.

[Optimystik]

I want to avoid it so I can show my marks at dramatically appropriate moments.

So just throw back your hood dramatically, or dismiss your disguise spell dramatically.

Or be an Illumian with Improved Sigil: Krau, and enter Anima Mage at Cleric 1/Binder 2.

Note: While the Wizard 1/Anima Mage 10 (Or Cleric 1/Anima Mage 10, if you're Illumian) tricks might work RAW, I doubt your DM will look kindly upon you for trying them, and therefore I am not suggesting them.

Epic Binder, you say? *reads through article* Hmm... seems good, some nice epic feats, and HOLY **** YOU CAN BIND CTHULHU!

Glad you like

Anyhow, most of the time Binder 15/KotSS 5 is better than Binder 20 (certainly, better at melee combat.) Without Anima Mage you will probably want that 4th vestige if you're a caster-esque Binder though, and the permanent Mind Blank is nice.

[Abd al-Azrad]

If your game hits epic, take a look at Epic Binders.

"The Cephalopocalypse?" That... I don't know what to say. That is the best thing ever! I think... I think I'm going to cry...

[gbprime]

Epic Binder, you say? *reads through article* Hmm... seems good, some nice epic feats, and HOLY **** YOU CAN BIND CTHULHU!

That's nothing. Bind both the bronze dude and the egyptian firstborn dude. Give allies tons of immunities, Mass Heal once every 5 rounds, absorb hits from allies, cannot die (conditionally), throw quickened forcecages, and activate/deactivate tenser's transformation as swift actions. killer, and doable at level 24.

[Optimystik]

The best part is that you can get both Epic Binding and Epic Spellcasting, simply by taking Anima Mage into its epic progression - it's a 10-level PrC, thus it will continue the pattern of +1 CL/+1 EBL each level.

"Any class features that increase or accumulate as part of a repeated pattern also continue to increase or accumulate after 20th level at the same rate."

[Thurbane]

I looove the Binder...probably my favorite class (which sadly, I've yet to actually play).

Key piece of advice I would give? Get into the Knight of the Sacred Seal PrC ASAP (pick a vestige you want to bind every day, and stick with it). The biggest bummer with this is the Weapon Focus req - either take a race that gets free martial weapon profs (Elf, Neraph etc.) or suck it up and focus on one of the more decent simple weapons (I suggest Longspear, or Morning Star if you use a shield).

KotSS gets full binding, full BAB, full Martial Weapon and Armor profs (except tower Shield, from memory) and some nice candy from your chosen vestige buddy. Definitely worth it...you only miss out on a handful of base class Binder abilities from levels 15-20.

Other random tips? Grab the Apprentice (Spellcaster) feat (DMG II) if you can - gets UMD onto your list of class skills. Needless to say, this is a blessing for any CHA related class.

Also, I really like the Hellbred race (body aspect) (FC II) for a melee based Binder. The bonus Devil Touched feats synergize pretty well with Binder abilities.

Lastly, the Veil of Allure (MIC) helps pump the save DC of any of your vestige based abilities.